The contract is sealed now. What have you got to say for yourselves? Are you happy? Did it work out as you thought it should? Here is a picture of the population chart at RMS. Does it make any wonder who got what around here? RMS gave us quite a generous offer considering the economy. But no effort was taken to repair the wages of the most skilled workers at the plant site. I just can't swallow that 9-80s were denied the work force. The Union Constitution doesn't want it. The members did. Can you live with that? If not, what are you going to do about it? As a non member, I am free to speak out against union policy, without any legal constraints that their constitution places on the members. I have done what I could. Now is the chance for Union members to make a difference. There is a Union Officer election soon. Are you happy with their performance? Make an appointment with yourself to vote for the people who fight for you. Dump those who perpetuated the same old BS. Send a message to the top. Did Jimbo get you what you wanted? Let him know. Did Ed do what a President should? Vote on it. Take command of your Union. Right now, they have command of you.
238 comments:
1 – 200 of 238 Newer› Newest»Well again the union has showed us that they are consistant. They promised alot and delivered nothing. Maybe we should recruit Jeff for the DBR position since the current DBR is a joke."Words from Watson" Yeah right, just words no substance. The assemblers and company wins this one. Brace youself for another 3 years of bad representation. My resume is ready.
Well since the assemblers are again being treated with kid gloves
they control the contract vote, its good contract for them so it it resounding YES.
See you at work Monday for 3 more fun, food, coin, false respect filled years! Maybe there will be feasting in all areas for a week, like 3 years ago and if you go then you are putting your two thumbs up for that has happened, and remember the run rule "have fun at work."
When you say "and if you go then you are putting your two thumbs up for that has happened" you imply that the company is bad. To support company moral is a bad thing.
Dont confuse Union greed with the lack of Company control over your class pay. Look at the pie chart. The Assemblers drive this Union. They told us "They're Not Interested" in fixing the pay structure at Raytheon. It will take a revolt to fix it. What are you going to do about it?
From a business standpoint, what the union is doing makes sense.....
Wait a sec......
APPROVAL!!!!!!!!!!
NOW GET BACK TO WORK!
Like the title says "Are you Happy?
Let's have company morale because that's what they dictate you'll have. B(ent)OHIC(AME)A. Usually when someone has wronged you, you don't want to associate with them, but hey why not turn the other cheek or for others spread them wider, joyfest is here. If they have the slopdowns(food)tomorrow don't forget to profusely thank your handlers and have seconds and thirds and belch to show you like it.
Respectfully? yours,
Anonymous
So, anyone going to post the actual vote tally here?
98%? LOL
"So, anyone going to post the actual vote tally here?"
If you weren't a freeloading scab you could have been at the meeting for the final tally. See ya'll at work Monday. Be sure to wear your orange shirts.
REMEMBER THE PEOPLE WHO STARTED THIS $HIT:
GARY LEATHERMAN. WILLIE STUBBS KEITH ROLLINSON,TERRY VISCONTI,FRED MARTIN,DOUG MCKINNEY, PAT COYNE, JAMES KIELER. MITCH HAMMONS JUST TO NAME A FEW. WHO'S CRYIN NOW FUCK BOYS?
HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
"If you weren't a freeloading scab you could have been at the meeting for the final tally."
Look dork, for your union to have the legal right to represent, you get to represent all. If you don't like it, STFU and kiss the boots of Jimbo. Or move back east where you belong. There is no such thing as a freeloader. We sacrifice our well being because the union takes from the trades and gives to the un-workers. Your union is full of freeloaders who pay dues and don't do a damn thing. Lazy good for nothing wannabees that wait for other people to do the mental work of negotiating for their own well being. They sit in a dead-end job for 20 years rather than get off their fat ass and crack a book for a promotion. Then they demand a premium paycheck because they can call others freeloaders. Its like they have to feel superior to something.
The orange shirts stood up to the likes of you. Hate them if you please. Those guys have more cojones in one toenail than you have in thirty of you all. To have fought and lost takes balls. At least they made a stand. Something you know nothing about. None of you took a stand against your union, knowing all along it was all F'd Up. It took men & women with a sense of justice to do that, despite the hate. So go get drunk and bed down with the HAHA Dude. That's about your style. You can HAHA together while you pound each other's flesh.
"Look dork, for your union to have the legal right to represent, you get to represent all. If you don't like it, STFU and kiss the boots of Jimbo."
Spoken like a freeloadin scab. Typical. Don't matter how you try to justify it you're still a freeloadin scab.
"REMEMBER THE PEOPLE (Heros) WHO STARTED THIS ..."
First of all, you don't have your names right. Second, there are dozens of us. Third, two of us are members. You're infected. Finally, those names you put up all have more balls than you. Even the ones who didn't start this like you claim.
You are the pathetic. Tapping wages of the real workers who don't need a union for representation. You are weak, so you band together like pussies. The only freeloader you have is a union member living with you because he can't pay rent, buy a car, or keep a security clearance, but he can drink your liquor and smoke your marlboros while making over 25 bucks an hour. Schmuck.
Spoken like a freeloadin scab. Typical. Don't matter how you try to justify it you're still a freeloadin scab.
Bitter as a winner, bitter as a loser. Maybe we should start another repetitive post:
Waah! Waah! Waah! Waah! Waah! Waah! Waah! Waah! Waah! Waah!
Now, another three years of educating the masses.
Remember those promises made about quitting this union; now is your chance.
720 out of 960 members showed up.
Vote was 576 to 144
That's my guess; bet I'm close, too!
They represent 1750; now you wonder why they're not taken seriously??
Unfortunately they can't go quit right now. Its too late for them to quit unless their personal window is open. You can get further unformation about resigning here. When your turn comes, make sure you send in your copies by certified mail. Also, mark your company envelope "Atten: Labor Relations".
The Union concedes to the company. Who has the knee pads on now? Not the ousties. At least they always had it right including the resigned union button. I used it and it works. No more taxation without representation. I'm out now. Thanks ousties!
least you could do is make your pie chart large enough to read dickhead!
"REMEMBER THE PEOPLE WHO STARTED THIS $HIT:
GARY LEATHERMAN. WILLIE STUBBS KEITH ROLLINSON,TERRY VISCONTI,FRED MARTIN,DOUG MCKINNEY, PAT COYNE, JAMES KIELER. MITCH HAMMONS JUST TO NAME A FEW."
"First of all, you don't have your names right. Second, there are dozens of us. Third, two of us are members. You're infected. Finally, those names you put up all have more balls than you. Even the ones who didn't start this like you claim."
Got enough names listed to see what happens next.
We'll soon see just how much balls they have won't we?
"720 out of 960 members showed up.
Vote was 576 to 144
That's my guess; bet I'm close, too!
They represent 1750; now you wonder why they're not taken seriously??"
960 union members out of 1750 hourly employees comes out to less than 55% union membership in the hourly ranks. That means there are an awful lot of hourly employees who have decided to vote with their wallets.
Add to that the 144 that voted against the negotiating committee, and that's over 50% of the hourly workforce that is dissatisfied with the union's efforts on our behalf.
Maybe it's time to admit it's the union's "leadership" that's really guilty of freeloading. Union members not only have the privilege of being underrepresented, but the privilege of paying for it, too.
Dude, if the picture up there is too small, try clicking on it.
Doug McKinney, checking in. Yea, I was the one at the rally last Wednesday. Where were you? How much balls? Uno, dos, bien puestos. Check! What happens next? Tecate and a Churchill Cubano. Cheers Amigo!
I see the chart fine once I click on it.......
At least try to act professional when talking about an organization that you are ....Oh wait.....
Who is representing who?
LOL!
3%, 2.75%, 2.5%.......
Nickels, dimes, quarters.....
"Maybe it's time to admit it's the union's "leadership" that's really guilty of freeloading. Union members not only have the privilege of being underrepresented, but the privilege of paying for it, too."
Original post Nov 2 5:39 AM said it was a guess for those numbers. I'd say that they're pretty close. Nobody in the leadership will say for sure. That would justify what's been said all along.
Looks like elections are right around the corner; choose your leaders wisely, members of 933!
Wages weren't fixed. What RONA? And 9-80s were not allowed. Now what?
Bad boys bad boys, what ya gonna do, what ya gonna do when they come for you?
I do not get it. You non-members gripe and complain about things, yet you do nothing to help your own cause!
I told you what the company was going to do in negotiations, and I was closer than anyone would have thought.
There was no reason for the company to even consider any of the things you really wanted. What were you going to do, go on strike? No, the Union members might have gone on strike, but you all made it perfectly clear on this blog that you were all crossing the picket line on Monday. I think the words were "business as usual".
So why are you blaming the Union for this???? This is NOT the Union members fault! The blame for this lies squarely on the shoulders of all you non members. You know it, now just admit it.
As I have stated many times before, the ONLY way for you to show the company you were truly serious was for you ALL to become Union members and to make sure people knew that if you got a bad contract you were going to go on strike. That would have proven that you were all VERY serious about this negotiations. But that is not what you did. Instead you non-members chose to make sure that everyone knew you were going to cross any picket line. Shoot, I bet you made sure all your supervisors knew it as well.
Oh thanks for the thought, but you all do not want me as your DBR. Just think, you'd be hearing this same type of thing from me every day.
So the bottom line is this: The ones to blame are the non-members. Think about it! You know I am right. Butch up and join the Union. It's the ONLY way to ensure a better contract. (I think I read that before on a previous post. Oh wait, I said that in numerous other posts.)
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!
Welcome back Jeff! You say we are griping about a bad contract? I have to correct you.
Judging by the economy, we didn't deserve the generous numbers we got from the Company. Nobody can tell me that the union "got me my benefits" this time, considering the damaged condition this union is in. Everything they got was given to them, with a little give and take at face value. The Company was real charitable with the Union.
The Union couldn't even manifest a decent rally out in front of the Company to save it's life. When 20% of your people go to rallies, it shows where their heart is. One of our own Ousties went out there to show some support. He was well received for his effort. At least most of the members haven't resorted to blaming us Ousties for the bad contract. That's because it was better than it should have been.
What were you saying about us not helping them get a good contract?...Oh yea....something about you think we should take the blame on our own shoulders. Upon our shoulders lays the pride of standing up to the Union. Yea, we lost. Some union officers finally admitted that we fought for a good cause. They just didn't want us dismantling the union to reach our goals.
Jeff, you called us selfish. You called us greedy. You had no clue what we were doing with the debate we pushed the entire time. When we finally dropped the dime on the union, we showed them with charts and graphs how lop sided the pay structure is here. One of our guys took the time to create a chart to help the union figure out how to fix the pay imbalance. They weren't interested. Regardless, we got a fantastic contract. So great a contract it is, we could have easily redistributed some of the wage increases to solve one of the longest standing issues the technical workers have with the union. They chose to ignore our petitions. They posted a comment on the union website stating that the Company was interested in fixing wages (Update #14). It got shot down. Not only did the Union not ask for it, they fought the Company when they asked the Union to help them create a fix.
Now you want us to Join the Union. What a surprise. Nobody has convinced me that the union will fight for me if I join. They always tell me that the group will be better off. But this contracts proves otherwise. A superbly weak union got a great deal. Go Figure!
Our group fought the IAM and caused all kinds of problems for them in their opinion. We "sabotaged" the negotiations, weakened them, and pulled good union members out of the protective fold with our rhetoric. We forced them to make T Shirts that don't deal with issues concerning the Company, but are defensive against Ousties. We "stopped at nothing to destroy their negotiating ability" And we still got a great Contract! Had they done something to fix the complaints we had posted, I bet half of the Ousties would have joined.
Jeff, there is no blame for a bad contract, when you add up the numbers, the Company gave a square deal. The blame is simply in the distribution of the increases. The Union admitted the Company wanted to help out. The Union never saw the wisdom to chase it. What more proof do I need than to paint this picture and say; "why did you want me to join again?"
"Never argue with a pig. It just frustrates you and irritates the pig."
Jeff, when this local had support for a STRIKE in '03, they turned tails and ran. The bulk of the membership (assembly) wasn't financially ready for a strike. Complaining about that for 3 years, they struck in '06 to no avail.
Trust me, the company has this local figured out; too many union moles in HR's offices. It's also not like where you're at, since it's already been proven that Joe Schmuck Engineer can build that hardware without problem.
Three more years or more arguing about this isn't going to help, sorry.
"The Union admitted the Company wanted to help out. The Union never saw the wisdom to chase it."
Of course not; that would be caving in to our demands!
Anon Nov 5, 2009 5:07:00 AM
Read ALL of the words, not just the little ones!!
The 1750 number came from your DBR in the paper on Sunday! A simple estimate came up with the rest of the values. Shoched thit it was so close to reality?
"this local had support for a STRIKE in '03, they turned tails and ran."
"The vote for strike in 03 was 53% against a stike so where did you get those bogus bullshit figures from?"
I was there, you dolt! Most changed their votes at the last moment, as I was one of them. That's why the vote was as close as it was. Being apathetic to the situation didn't help the leaders, now, did it?
Go to work; enjoy that 2.75%!
Hmm, looks like someone's viens are about to pop. You can't count, can't read, and can't control yourself. Don't like the numbers on the pie? Blame the asst chief steward. Have him send our guy an accurate list next time. He got it from you guys.
The vote against a strike wasn't 53%. Get your facts straight, dope. If you had actually read this blog instead of slobbering up everything you touch, you would have the actual vote count from the strike. We were there.
Look at the fat pig call names! And you call SP one? We'll see who has the coronary the soonest. Not only are you an angry stupid sloth, you don't even read before you fly off the handle. SP said the Company was generous with the Union. It's the Union that screwed up. With minds like yours representing, it's no wonder.
Once again Slim fails to see the broader picture. Yes, the times are tough, but I seriously doubt that the wage increases the company gave you were really the best they could do.
Negotiations are a we want what you got situation. The workers want more money, better benefits and such. While the company wants to get away with giving the workers as little as possible, in wages, benefits and such.
With that said, the workers one and only tool to show the company how serious they are is to make sure people know they are willing to go on strike for a fair contract. Note that I never said they had to actually go on strike, but they have to make it known that they are not afraid to strike if needed.
Did you do that? Did you make it known that you were all willing to go on strike for a fair contract????? Quite the opposite! You made it known that you were NOT going to strike, which gave the company all the leverage in this negotiation. What was there for the company to really lose??? They didn't even need to talk about 9/80 or RONA or whatever because they knew you non-members would be at work, "business as usual".
So what should have been done?????
All the non-members should have joined the Union. That would have sent notice to the company that you were serious. Then you should have had a huge turnout for the strike sanction vote and unanimously passed that vote. Another notice to the company that you are ALL serious about this negotiations. Then you all should have made it clear, both here and to your supervisors, that you were ready to go on strike for however long it took to get a fair contract.
Had you done that, I bet you that you would have gotten a much better contract than what you got. But that is what you get for living in a right to work for less state.
Lastly, the Union is obligated to fight for all it's members. It's called "duty of fair representation" or DFR for short. And charges can be brought against the Union if they fail to properly represent you.
Damn I hate being right all the time!
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!
Jeff,
You truely are from a different state. You have no idea how whooped this union really is after the last strike. You just don't understand the will of the people here. I completely understand how you present the theory of union power. Now listen up. The theory is busted here!
I am telling you that the Union got a way better deal than the vast majority of the salaried workers this year. They are getting COLA, and the union is way ahead of that. This union got handed a very generous offer. But the union squandered it's good will with the technical workforce by not taking advantage of an awesome opportunity to make things right.
There was no threat to strike. The union couldn't muster a serious threat of a strike. Only 20% of the Union went to the road side rallys. With the lack of leverage you talk about, they still came out way ahead of the cost of living this year. Our Economy retracted this year! We got almost 3%! Salaried are getting half that much this year. How much more serious than double does the labor force need to be? You need to accept the facts as they stand, on their own merit. The Company threw a sympathy bone at the Union when they doubled the pay raises that salaried got.
An increase in membership would not have had an effect in this case. The union reports that they had increased membership when the vote took place. It makes no difference if they have 99% or 49%. The company has a weak union that has a powerless strike. The only power the Union has is what the Company allows it to have. The power that they have, they chose not to exercise, and that's the power to correct the wages of the work force. They failed in their dutyof fair representation. You've seen the charts and pay scales. It's undeniable.
It's in black and white, you are not right. But we still like you Jeff.
Slim
Here; problem solved:
http://www.rayjobs.com/
You'll do better there than you will here:
http://www.rmshourlyjobs.com/
Jeff - put up or shut up! Read the listings & see for yourself.
Don't they have Steward Elections this week? The sign up roster for my work center was supposed to be posted on the 5th of Nov for an election the 11th. The sign up sheet is sitting on a desk collecting dust. No wonder the same people keep getting re-elected for steward! What a scam!
"Don't they have Steward Elections this week? The sign up roster for my work center was supposed to be posted on the 5th of Nov for an election the 11th. The sign up sheet is sitting on a desk collecting dust. No wonder the same people keep getting re-elected for steward! What a scam!"
Nov 8, 2009 7:38:00 PM
You are mis informed. Steward elections were moved to January due to the 06 strike. Some have special elections such as when a steward quits , moves on, and an alternate is not willing to take the position. There was an interesting development in todays union meeting, seems some are still listening. Ramon Rodriguez was nominated as well as Larry Laye for the DBR position held by Jimbo, he too was nominated.
John Catalano,Liz Hunter, and Andy Lopez, are leaving the negotiating committee and the other nominees are Serlin Weathers, Victor Duarte, Robert Alcaraz, andVal Manzenedo. Those elections are a month away.
Wasn't it chief stewards?
Apparently, apathy has settled in over here.
How about those grocery workers?
I say if they strike, go shop at Fry's. Those companies are facing the same finance issues with Med Cost as RMS did. I can't scrape up any compasion for union grocery workers for the issues they gripe about. Our union tried to feed it's workers a bunch of crap. "Don't let the Company cry Poor!" "No pass through language!" etcetera etcetera. The local 99 is doing the same to it's workers now. I'll put them on ignor.
Lets see:
Union threatens strike.....
Employer quickly hires replacements.......
Union realizes it may get kicked out and calls off strike......
Almost got rid of the Carnies...
Probably shouldn't, but I will post. This is the first time I've been to this site.
Alot of name calling and finger pointing going on here.
I just feel compelled to point out a few facts as I know them.
I am a union member and a steward. I noticed how Jeff uses his real name. Another well informed member.
The names of the ousters are correct, stand proud of your convections. It took alot of balls for Doug to come out on the line with us. Your right about 20% on the line. It's appathy, that's all.
Not quite sure I remember all the numbers from the meeting, but it was a fairly good turn out and the for the contract was more like 80% for and 20% against. Notice that 20% again. Those are the hard core members.
Ramon was nominated for DBR but I don't remeber if he accepted. It's Jimbo and Louie Martinez if my memory severs me.
I don't belive Serlin, Robbie or Val were nominated for the negotiation committee. Although any of them would make a fine committee member. John, Liz and Andy are not leaving, they are just up for reelection. Dan Agaurie is running. Dan would also make and excellent committee member. I can think of no one else who gives more of his time for the union and the community as a hole.
9/80 the union did and has tried to get it for it's members. Raytheon corporate doesn't want it. Its hughes legacy. They would like to get rid of it for the salaried too, especially for the production areas. Notice all the legacy hughes mangement being replaced. Louise didn't retire, she was forced out and Raytheon corporate put Taylor in. Check it out Louise is a director an another company now. Rona, don't even get me started on that, I'm not sure there is enough room in the cyberworld for that issue.
Yes, maybe the more educated technical hourly folks have gotten the short end of the stick, but there have been some corrections over the years that the union agreed too. But this is democracy in action, majority rules. Thats American.
To sum this up. After the strike I was bitter towards the ousties, freeloaders and then even some of my fellow union members. The strike was 3 years ago and I've decided to get on with life. I've reached out to others again and I hope that together we can all make a better life for ourselves.
So go ahead and give me some flack, but I'll hold my head high and keep on doing what I feel is right.
John
I really hope you're covered in all of this; I really wouldn't want to see you brought up on charges of defaming the union in that post (seriously).
I really hope you didn't believe that 9/80 crap.
It may be legacy Hughes, but why is it that 70% of the corporation is on the 9/80 calendar? Why is it that 9/80 is listed quite highly as one of the perks of working at Raytheon?
Sorry to tell you that 9/80 is NEVER going to be given to the hourly ranks while 933 represents us.
Google "Raytheon 9/80" and read it for yourself.
Louise?! Profile Louise
Louise had no love for the union; she did have love & respect for the people who did the work, you know that!
She was not going to move an inch further in the corporation; she bailed, took her golden parachute and headed for the hills.
Looks like she's doing well in her retirement years: Pima Co Info
Not sure if I am covered in all of this. Some how I don't believe I can get in trouble with the Union for being open and honest. I just want to try and make things right. I'm not perfect and neither is the Union, but I'm trying.
Yes I do believe that 9/80 crap. Of course like most us us we get our information from other sources. Getting 9/80 info is limited. But I do believe my source. It is listed as a perk locally. I do not believe it is offered back in Massatuchets (forgive my spelling, I'm not used to the blog and not sure if there is a spell check here).
Perhaps your right about Louise, we can only conjecture why she left. She did have no love for the Union. I remember walking past her once after a meeting. She look at me like she was afraid, kind of veered away like you might when you pass some one you are either afraid of or distaste. I wasn't a steward then or have any union parafanalia on, just dressed like a regular hourly worker. That left an impression on me that she didn't like ordinary people. She was from a class much higher than me. If she had smiled or nodded, then I would have believed she cared about us. So my belief is that she cared for no lowly worker, union or not. Hard worker or not.
Looking at the profile you can clearly see that she did not retire. Maybe your right, maybe she took her golden parachute and went somewhere else for another golden parachute. Who could blame her, most of us would love to have a golden parachute, let alone two.They come from a different society than we do.
I tried to hit the Pima Co link in your post, but it kept trying to redirect me and I was worried about losing what I posted here. I'll go back afterwards and hit that link again, so I can see the info you have provided for me.
I sense a sort of restrained hostility towards me in your blog. I'm really just trying to be open and give my perspective. I intend no ill will anymore towards those of you who crossed and hope that we can work our differences out for our mutual benifit.
John
Still not afraid of using my name and who I am. Nobody should hide in the bushes forever. If you know me and pass by me, stop and talk to me.
Checked the Pima Info link you provided. Yes, she's doing well, why would I be surprised. Like I said earlier they are in a diffent class than you and me. They take more and and more and offer us less and less.
John
Louise was a secretary at Hughes Canoga Park in the 80's and her husband John also worked there but I'm not sure what he did. I agree with you John about her attitude in regards to hourly but you would think from her humble beginning she would have a different attitude.
I'd never heard much about her history before she became President. I remember reading that her husband was a partner in some law firm while she was here, I would imagine there's another golden parchute there. The only other time I remeber her husband being mentioned was after they commisioned the submarine "USS Tucson". Louise, her husband and some other local bigshots got to spend a couple of days out to sea on it. There was a pic in some RMS publication showing the two of them up top out at sea. I remember thinking at the time that it would have been nice if for every local big shot they invited that if they had also invited a worker bee that had performed well at their job from each of their corporations as a special incentive. Things like would do well for morale. But they are in a special privilaged class. Still though, even privilage can't hide the kankles.
John
I was just looking back over the prvious string and read this.
Anonymous said...
"...Raytheon would think we were the contingency workers."
You are mistaken. Contingency Workers performed at 104% of the goal, with no lost time injuries, setting a record for all time. Doubt me? Ask your VSM.
Oct 31, 2009 11:46:00 PM
I couldn't help it, that is the funniest thing I've read so far on this blog. I started laughing uncontrollaby. Great way to start my day.
Just ask your VSM, they'll give you the straight facts, ha ha, very funny.
John
You chuckle, John, because you know there's truth in that statement.
"...to prop up its less than stellar contingency force. Don't try and BS people by saying you did great without us."
Since you're enjoying the blog, let's see what other pieces of wisdom can be found:
"No, what happened was prophesied in these very pages time and time again. Take the time and read the history here and in other places and see for yourselves what has happened."
Where is the guy who said salary would be testing before the end of the year?
I want to thank John for coming and stating his case. This blog wanted it years ago. Better late than never. I hope more serious stewards and unionists come to this forum to debate what separate us. You are most welcome here, it dont matter your background, from Louise to the HAHA Dude.
But I have to call you on the VSM thing. The only way anyone can evaluate our company is to look at the record. Nobody has a monopoly on the truth, not the union, nor the company. To discount the company, in this case, because we dont trust the VSM is disingenous unless we have facts and statistics that counter the ones they provided. This space is here precisely for that purpose. Bring on the facts!
Aren't there engineers doing testing at Rita already? Wasn't that supposed to stop?
I chuckled because I thought it was so ironic. Sure if I was a VSM I'd do the same thing. Becasuse that would be part of my job. Do the company's bidding. Hey, their rasies are determinned solely on performance. How about one of those matrices being determined on employee satistaction? Just one. Some of the greatest compamys have discovered that by treating their empolyees good, has yeilded them a great return. Check Google or Microsoft employee benifits. These are companys that succeed by treating and rewarding their employees fairly. Unfortunitly neither you or me work for such an employer. That is why we have a union.
That was my response to
"...to prop up its less than stellar contingency force. Don't try and BS people by saying you did great without us".
Who said you were less than stellar? I have no dought that the hourly work force that crossed the line could do the job. Then you trained the others to do it. The company shut down the areas that weren't critical and moved those people into the crictal areas, and because of you're expertise and knowledege they were able to amble a long. Hey, I've been here a long time, I personally know alot of middlle mangers and they told me me how much it impacted the company when we went out. On the personal side they told me that they hoped that we would not strike again. Most of the enginnering staf said the same. I'm a person who is known. I'm John the steward. Hell, even Bob Guth knows me at sight. I'm a target. So Take a breath and think about it for a minute. Why in the Hell would I make these posts if I didn't believe in what I'm, talking about. I'm not even sure at this moment that I should make this post. But I sure the hell I will, it's my nature.
Semper-Fi
John
John here again,
In response to.
Anonymous said...
Where is the guy who said salary would be testing before the end of the year?
Nov 21, 2009 1:33:00 PM
Actually from what I know they have engineers doing tester (PTS) work on Tomahawk. The company says they need to use engineers right now because they can't hire enough qualified people to do the job of all the rework. Do you have any idea of where all that rework came from? I'll hold my tounge. Remember the strike. Sorry I couldn'nt hold it. This isn't the only program. Just this week week the company shut down TOW. Why did that happen? Because they moved work to NAPI, the only third world country, that just happened to be in the United States of America. Cheap labor, No UNION, not even allowed on any reservation. Don't get me started on why some of our people even go to their cssinos. How much they bitch about Walmart, but not the casino on the Rez.
I'm not above calling on my own. Not that I'm above critisium. I've shopped at Wallmart.
John
Still not hiding in the bushes, how about you?
"The company shut down the areas that weren't critical and moved those people into the crictal areas, and because of you're expertise and knowledege they were able to amble a long. "
There were no production areas shut down during the strike. Salaried "contingincy workers" were directed to do the production job on the floor,and then get back to their regular jobs and do what they could for rest of their time. Official records indicate the production went up. I'm sure shortcuts and other tricks were used to make this happen. But it's on the record.
Former union members who were salaried during the strike will probably satisfy your questions best. They have seen it all, and have nothing to hide from. And they probably wont tell a "company only" story to another union member. After all, they once were members themselves.
Different programs have different contracts. Payments are different. Some programs are much more critical to the company than others are.
The company will move people around to adjust for their needs. Just makes business sense.
Perhahaps I chose my words wrong. Shutting down a program would not likely happen, but if you have 100 people on program A and 50 of them leave. Of the 50 left your priorities are to utilize those 50 as best as you can. So you shift them, maybe not all, but some to the programs that have a much higher priority to our custsomer.
Don't forget the customer. Our military, supported by us the tax payer. Alot of us are veterans too. Most Veterans are more than proud to be working for the defense industry.
Most of those men and women who fight over there for our freedoms will most likely come back home and need a good job. Alot will come to our front door. Shouldn't we do the best to make sure that they get a good paying job with good benifits?
Really that is what it's about. Not just us here now, but those who will come in the door behind us. We have to fight to make things right now. That's the least we can do for those that will come behind us.
I've been salaried before myself, it was okay. I've been offered a few times to go back to salary, but I did not and most likely I won't ever. Yes, they will tell you what went on during the strike, and most of the engineering folks that I work with and have talked to me since the strike have told me the truth. Sure they can do our work, they don't want too. Given enough of them they can. By the way they out number us 5 to 1. I Also saw alot of out of state plates driving across that strike line, so corporate brought in alot of other folks from other parts of Raytheon. I also saw alot of vehicles that looked like rentals from tha airport. Saw quite a few vehicles with New Mexico license plates with 4 native americans in them (NAPI). Don't go PC on me here. Currently we have the good folks from NAPI to thank for the TOW shutdow. So while you folks are doing custodial/facilities work, you can thank them. Just be glad there was a Union here that, even going aginst their core beliefs felt it was the right thing to do to let the company move you into those posistions and keep your regular wages.
We had native Americans on the line too, and even though I don't look it, I have enough native American blood in me to qualify. Well maybe not me but my mother does. That little old gal could whip most with just her sharp tought if you cross her.
Well it's time for me to go to work. First OT I've worked in a long time. I refused before, just pissed me off to much to spend any more time there than I absolutly had too. I don't live beyond my means, a very simple life for our society. I like it that way. But, every now and then you have to think of the little lady, so I've spent alot of my Strike fund that I had built up. Now I'll go back to OT. I'll build that sucker up even larger than before. I've got another 3 years to do it and I will.
John.
Still not hiding in the bushes. How about you? Quit being afraid, it'll make you stronger.
Why is it that when ever the union folks talk they bring the salariedinto their little arguments? I know the area that I supported during the strike did just fine,I believe we even out produced the normal workers. Yes we did have some hourly workers that still came in but not allof them. With the engineers doing the work we were able to reduce the hours to build a unit, test a unit and get it moved around the building. So in that one area that I know of production went up, and I know for a fact that the rework did not increase at all. I don't understand wht the hourly seem to think that they are the only ones that can do their jobs, from what I have seen the engineers write all the planning, test procedures and everything else that is used to produce things, the only area that I can think of that took a hit was metrology and that is because they for the most part are the ones with more specialized training. Just my thoughts
Here's a little something from 1948 that is like a prediction from the past of our present circumstance. Lesson on freedom for those of us who forgot.
"Do you have any idea of where all that rework came from? I'll hold my tounge. Remember the strike. "
STOP!
That rework came from Q3 & Q4 2008, Q1 2009 efforts!
How do I know? I was there!
Humm, I see we have some salaried here on this blog. Read my earlier post. I said the salaried can do our job, but that they really don't want too. Hey if I had an engineering degree I wouldn't want to work as an assembler or a tester. You folks spent allot of time, money and effort to get that degree. I know first hand, I went to (Oh should I let this out, lots of Wild Cat fans here) ASU for a year for Electrical Engineer Technical degree after getting my associates in Electrical Technology. I was broke, out of money and already had too much college tuition debt that I felt uncomfortable about. So when Hughes Aircraft Company offered me a salaried job as an engineering assistant I went for it. Four years later (1988) there was a massive layoff after GM had acquired us. I had hoped to continue my pursuit of an engineering degree at U of A. Guess what, they didn't offer an Electrical Engineering Technology degree. They have and Electrical Engineering degree. So I went back to the local community college and retook all of my math requirements, trig, calculus, differential equations, etc, because they wouldn't accept my calculus for electrons classes, etc.
Then came a lot of required OT. I wasn't able to continue with school for awhile. Then things took a dive and I was laid off. Never did get to finish that degree. Sure, I know if there is a will there is a way. But by then I was older, had a family and had to do what I could to survive. I came back hourly decided to join the union and stay hourly. Get the highest hourly job I could. I took the classes, passed the test and after 3 years on the list became a Rambo. Well you know where that got me.
Yes Mr. Engineer (and I mean that respectfully), perhaps in your area production did go up. Bring in a lot engineers from another area, throw out all of the normal procedures that we have to follow (eliminating the red tape) throw the dogs aside because they will be back and they can fix them and I'm sure production will go up. Other areas that they drew from (the less critical areas) went into limbo during that time. Yes we did have a lot of rework that Bob Lepore will not ever mention. Yes I know who Bob Lepore is and you thought I was ignorant, didn't you? I have been around along time and personally know allot of people I used to hang with in the 80's who are now mangers and directors, etc. Yes, they fared well better than me, but everyone knows "Life isn't Fair" there are others out there in this world who would envy me of my job, life, home, etc. So, I'm not bitching about that. I just believe that we need to move forward, not keep going down hill. Unions have taken quite a hit in the last couple of decades, during that time the average joe has seen his wages reduced and benefits reduced. While the corporate bottom line has gone up and up and up. Finally the bubble burst, they get billions in stimulus money from the tax payers (you and me) maybe more from you because you probably make more than I do. What do they do with some of that stimulus money? They give themselves big bonuses, paid for retreats, all kinds of perks. Hell, even Taylor Lawrence gets free parking at the airport. That is not Raytheon paying but the airport authority letting him and other big wigs park for free, good business I guess, but who really pays for it. You and me, when we go to the airport and have to pay to park.
Part 1
John. Still not hiding in hte bushes
John
Part 2
Learned something here about blogs, can't be larger that 4095 characters.
Planning, test procedures, etc. You have no idea how much of my time as a cal service technician has been spent on rewriting, redlining and proving in all of those procedures. Hell I've had many engineers tell me to just do the calibration and write it for them as I go. I won't, that's their job. I will correct it for them afterwards though. Hey, good thoughts and thanks for weighing in.
I saw that cartoon video before, sorry I don't have the time to watch it all right now. I will again when I have a little more time.
Another has posted this.
"Do you have any idea of where all that rework came from? I'll hold my tongue. Remember the strike. "
STOP!
That rework came from Q3 & Q4 2008, Q1 2009 efforts!
How do I know? I was there!
Nov 22, 2009 5:57:00 PM
Sorry, Q3 & Q4 2008, Q1 2009. Remember I'm just and ignorant hourly employee. How would I know that? So maybe I was wrong on that one, not sure. But I'll take your word for it.
Well this blog is a good forum for us to post our thoughts and ideas. I like this kind of discourse. Damn I sound more intelligent than I really am. I hope it continues in a respectful way. We can have our differences and keep it civil. I hate those on either side who just get on here and bitch, call names and slander the other side. They really aren't intelligent enough to express their ideas in a thoughtful way. They just spoue their hateful thoughts. Damn, I sure wish there was spell check on here (spoue) is that correct? Hey, I never said I was perfect.
John
Still not hiding in the bushes
Hey, John here again. I'm really surprised that there are no other posts after my last one. I need some engaging entertainment. Notice I don't sleep much and need something to fill my hours early in the morning. Perhaps your tiring of my dribble or perhaps everyone is on vacation. Another Union victory. Without Unions we'd all be working 24/7. Okay, I'll look elsewhere this morning. I'll Check out the cruise websites. I've never been on one and have promised my wife a really nice vacation next year. Later.
John, Still not hiding in the Bushes.
When are the contracts coming out? How long does it take to print? I understand there are Officer Elections soon at Union Hall. DBR, and three Negotiating Committee positions are up for grabs. Others? If you are running for one of these positions, or would like to talk about it, why not use this forum? What do the candidates have to say about their ideas for the future?
Are there any candidates who will talk about fighting for RONA, Merit Pay, 9/80s or unfair wages? What did you do last time? What will you do next time?
What are you the candidate doing to fix the union? Here is a free platform! Show us Change!
The printed contract will be out soon. I know it is going to press now. It is the company who handles the printing and publication of the contract, with the Unions involvement of course. The contracts always take some time before they are published and handed out to the bargaining unit. Bargainning Unit, that is what we are to the company and that is why we all need to stand behind the negoiating committe at contract time. Regardless of whether you are a union member or not, they represent us all and will continue to do that in the present and future. Our best hope for a good contract is through them. That is just a plain fact that we live with.
As far as I know the elections (Dec 11th ?)are for DBR, and 3 negoiating committee members. DBR is Jimbo Watson and Louie Martinez. There are several running for the negoiation committe. All are worth voting for and will do a great job. Remember though these are everday Joes, like you and me. The international will help them and train them. They usually go away for a couple of weeks before contract time and get some training, but it is not their everyday occupation. Those folks do put in alot of personal time to do this. It is not an easy task. Alot of time away from their families. I've been asked before to run for the committee, but haven't been willing to make that sacrafice yet. Perhaps I might in the future. I know for sure now that I will get even more involved in the union, we all should.
I personally think this would make a great platform for all of the canidates. Not sure if they feel the same way, since it was established by the Ousties. I also really doubt many of our members check this blog out. I'm sure in the beginning alot of the labor workforce used this blog to express their displeasure with the union and most have probably stopped checking it out since the latest contract negoiations is now a thing of the past. I'll continue to post as long as there is anyone willing to read my dribble. If I can get just one of you anti-union folks to convert, then I feel it will be worth it. Hopefully more of you will begin to understand what the union and the company negoiations are all about and become more supportive because it will work to our mutual benifit.
Well I should finish this post before I hit 4096 again.
John, Still not hiding in the bushes, how about you?
Gee, I'm on a roll this morning. Probably too much time on my hands and I don't have to go to work for a few days. Holidays, I seriously doubt we'd have any of them if it wasn't for Unions.
Anyway, the real reason for this post is because in talking with one of you ousties (just not sure what else to call you guys/gals). It came up that the Cal Service Techs would do much better if they were salaried. After all we cal service techs for the most part have either a colledge education or PMEL from the military or both. A lot of cal service techs are retired military. (Hey, talk about a large Union).
Let me put this strait. VSM's and supervisors are on the bottom of the salaried pole. Sure there are engineers that start lower, but they will rise. If they don't perform well as an engineer they usually go into mangement and do better. If they are a good enginner and love their work, they generally stay as an engineer and get surpassed in pay by their less performing managers. Not that there aren't some good managers out there, but there are a lot of them who are less qualified than most custodians. Sorry, I don't mean to demean custodians, some take that job to get in the door and then progress to higher paying jobs. Anyway I've digressed.
Damn, Iv'e exceeded 4096 again an will have to make another part 2 post.
John
Still not hiding in the bushes.
Patt 2
Sorry I'm so long winded.
If the Cal service tech or any other hourly occupation, like testers were to become salaried, guess where the new bottom of the salaried ranks would be? This is what you'd get. That test set is down, you will stay here at work until it is up and running. Daughters birthday party, the phone rings, your VSM on the line, get your ass in here now we have a production shut down. Tester, it's the end of the month and we haven't made the numbers we need yet, you will stay and work through the weekend. You won't be paid double time either for you Sunday. Right now, because of the Union contract you have the right to decide if you will work OT or not. You get paid Double time on Sundays. Yes, that is negotiated, not law. Without that contract you'd recieve less.
Let me tell you a little story that just happended to me last week. I had accepted OT for a Sunday, first time I had accepted OT in a couple of years. On Friday I had a little sore throat. Knowing that now we had to make our refusal within the first four hours or get a 100 hour penalty I decided to decline the OT. Not really sure if I was sick or not, but just covering my ass. Well, that Sunday all hell broke loose in my area, two TP's down, end of the month and I wasn't there to fix them. On Monday the VSM was down to the lab right away wanting them back up. Well, it was a rough Monday and things didn't work out well. End of the shift a TP was still down. That VSM went to my supervisor and told him to ask me to stay late. I had a dentist appointment that I'd made from 6 months ago. I didn't want to miss that. So I left for it. The VSM became quite upset and told others that he had the authority to direct me or any other to stay for mandatory OT. He was going to make sure I and the the other steward knew that at the meeting we had the next day with HR to go over the contact details. Well he never did make that point because he learned he did not have that authority. The contract clearly points out how mandatory OT can be enforced. It is a lengthy process and must be approved by the department manager after all other means havebeen tried, then the Chief Steard and area steward have to be informed. Then the least senior employee in that occupation plantwide is direct to OT. See a Union contract makes your life better. You have the choice.
What is so ironic about this story, is that I did not end up being sick. I felt fine that Sunday and would have come in for OT and been there to fix the TP's. But, due to the companys instistance on that stupid attendance policy, which they put in place beacuse they are to lazy to go through the process needed to correct the attitude of a few problem employees, this is what happened. Two days of a production stoppage. Another point I want to make is most of those problem employees are anti-union.
Well time to check that cruise line website again. I need a vacation.
John
Still not hiding in the bushes. How about you?
"I've been asked before to run for the committee, but haven't been willing to make that sacrifice yet. Perhaps I might in the future. I know for sure now that I will get even more involved in the union, we all should."
Not willing to make the sacrifice, yet needing to get more involved. Hmmm....what a veritable quandary to be in John!
Happy Thanksgiving
Long winded or not, you’ve been doing what we Ousties have asked for John. Those are good points on what a union should be doing for the workforce. In Part 2 you talk about our field specifically. There are some benefits to unionizing here. Many Ousties argued that the union did not serve all equally, so the benefit is reduced. In my mind, it cost me more than it’s worth. Here’s why I feel that way. You describe the “test set is down at 3 pm and the daughter has a birthday party” scenario. It is true that the contract lets us off the hook here. I was walking out the door when that VSM was looking for you, and I can vouch for your story. It really happened as you said it. I have always been one of the guys who worked late. I usually have no problem 90% of the time when the VSM needs an extra hour or two to pull through the last days of the month. In service to my country, I gave up six family marriages, two family funerals, every one of my sibling’s child birth, divorce, and even missed the birth of my 3rd child. I will give more if it means I will arm my nephew with missiles for his F-22. It’s what I do. I prefer to get paid more per hour standard, with less for OT if given the choice, if I can get paid prevailing rates. I believe without our union, the wages for our field would go up at least two and a half dollars per hour. By what standard they would set the rates makes all the difference. My bet is that they use the 2008 wages from the Air Base (28+ per hour). Or would they use the TEP cal-tech wage scale which goes from 28.96 to 37.69? I looked both of them up with a simple BLS check using SOC Code 499069. Prevailing wages is the standard that defines pay for a non unionized shop in a defense plant. Our wages are lacking, all the Ousties agree. So do the guys who hate the Ousties. I wonder how many engineers would have stayed on as cal-techs had they been paid like TEP cal-techs? Would we miss birthday parties? Probably. Mandatory OT? I can imagine we would. Would it be worth it for the pay of an associate? That’s why we’re here, to talk about the issues. It’s getting late, and I have a bird to tend to. I hope everyone has a great weekend.
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Douglas
Yes, it is a bit of a quandry. I've been pitched the ball several times and haven't swung yet. I'm getting ready to swing at it though. Perhaps the next time around if it is pitched again.
No, the union doesn't serve all equally, but it does serve all fairly. Or perhaps not, but it's structured to do both. Nothing is ever perfect, except Jesus. I'll take my chances with a Jimbo, Bobby, etc over a Guth any day. You certaily can't trust those HR folks to come to our aid. You can count on the Union to. The Union will be there in your hard times. We are a family, a little disfunctional at times, but there for each other when it counts. That's what I'm saying man. Sure we technical people feel short sided and maybe we could gain more pay, though I really doubt it. This company will pay you the least that they feel they can get away with. Salaried or hourly, they offer only the minimum. They want a cheap, but highly traind workforce. They feel that here in good old AZ, that they can get away with that. Lots of cheapo labor around here, not many highly trained though, but they have DM, a good source for a very experienced technical employee, who wants to stay in AZ after retiring.
Most of you Veterans are used to taking and giving direction without even thinking much about it. It is the way the military trains us so that in combat we'll react accordingly and do whatever is necessay to defend ourselves and protect our country. That's the way it has to be. So, when you leave the miltary after 20 or so years it is hard to adjust to the civilian way of doing things. You rely on you military insticts. You always will, it's ingrained into your soul. So, you come to a place like Raytheon, and continue to function like you did in the military. What is all this Union crap about, follow orders. You haven't developed that understanding of what Unions are really about yet. That's why I'm here, to help you make that conection. I think eventually you will figure it out. It's really about taking care of your brother and sister. Notice how we Union folks refer to each other in those terms. It's not just a saying it is a real feeling that you get after you become a member.
I have worked late many a time myself. There are some good engineers in my area, that are under pressure to get that TP up and running in order to make production requirements. When I stay late, work through a break, take a late lunch, it is for them that I do it. Not the company, it's because those engineers appreciate it. If I work with an engineer, who expects it, or demands it, well guess what? I'm headed home on time. Hell, I've even written a grievance or two on those same engineers that I appreciate, we joke about it. Not a joke and they know it, I will enforce the contract. It's not all black and white to me though, there is alot of grey matter in there that you need to use you own grey matter to make a good decision.
Well, lets see if I've exceeded 4096 again.
John
You know me, I'm a Marine and damn proud of my service. Although I never had to make a combat sacrafice, I was there to do it if need be, just wasn't the time. I'm proud of any Man or Woman who has put on a uniform of any branch of the service. That's what has protected our country and our way of life and we need to and will continue to protect it. Now, we're protected from those outside our country who intend to do us harm. We need protection from those in the corporate world who would try to make us into thrid world labor for their greedy profits. Hey, a company needs to be profitable to be sucessful and provide us with jobs. I get that and want Raytheon to be profitable. But hey, take care of your employees along the way. If they'd do that right, there would be no need of a Union. I think over the last couple of years you have started to grasp that concept. Now is the time to seriously think about being supportive of our Union. We have 3 years before the next contract. If we get together and combine our forces, we'll show corportate how serious we are and they'll have to respect us. Yes, they can amble along for awhile without us, but not sucessfully or profitably.
Coming to this blog has helped me vent and express my thoughts and ideas, I'm sure not all my ideas are perfect. They made need some fine tunning, but they are good basic ideas, that I hope you will take into consideration and give great thought to.
Yep, it happend again, so here's part two.
I see Douglas has came out of the bushes, how about the rest of you. Now is the time for great men & women to come to the aid of their fellow workers. Yes, I did take a little liberty on that famous military quote. For you civilians out there "Now is the time for great men to come to the aid of their country".
John
I did try and go back to sleep after my last posting. But to no avail. Well it's after 6 am anyway. I'm ususally at Falcon field by now. Hey, that is a great facility and if you did not know it they are going to tear down those trailers and build an new and improved facility over the next year. Something good from the corporation and a great benifit to its employees. I guess even the corporation can do a good deed once in awhile. But I feel that it's more for the salaried than for us hourly, but we can benifit from it. Anyway I've digressed again.
What kept me awake was that I didn't fully communicate one of the last parts of my last post.
When I joined the Marines I fully expected to be a combat Marine. I grew up as a teenager with the Vietnam war. Saw it on TV every day. Alot of you did too. So when I joined I expeted to be put to that test. Well damn, guess what? Peace happened. Screwed all that want to be a hero shit right up. My four years went by and I thought, this is a pretty damn lame way to make a living. I'd already done the go out and see the world, had a geat ride. Got to fly in alot of helicopters, After all I did swing with the wing. Civilians, that means I supported the flying aspect of the Marine Corps. Been to Japan, Okinawa (One of the most beautiful places on God's green earth), the Phillipines (Another great place), South Korea (what can I say here, definately not like the others). I was supposed to go to Thailand, but broke my leg in a motorcycle accident the morning of my flight. So, back to the states and round eyed women. Then my military days were over and I'm back in the civilian's world. I did some truck driving for a couple of years. Was a Teamster. Back then the Teamsters were strong, their declining years of course as with all unions. Iorn wowkers, don't ever cross their picket line. It will cost you. Our Union is different, Men and Women, parents and grandparents. We behave differently. That is why we waved at others as they crossed our picket line. Still we are a Union and all of our core members held the line. But, we knew when it was time to go back in. Lick our wounds and get prepared for the next time.
Sure you Ousties ragged on us union folks for not going out on strike on 03, that would have been indeed a good time to strike. I voted for the strike back then and was upset that it didn't happen. Then you ragged on us in 06 for going out on strike. Probably wasn't the best time. But the company need to know that we would do it. So we did. Now you rag on us for not going out in 09. Come on, make up your minds. Reach down and grab a pair if you've got them or grow a pair if you don't.
Well, I strayed again just a little from my original point. I too want to do the best I can to make sure your nephew? Has what he needs for his F22 (wow, what a thrill that must be and I thought helicopters were fun). We will be putting out alot of those missiles for him to carry on his wings. We always have to say one step ahead of those who would do us harm if we let ourselves get weak.
John
As somebody who is only getting my info from here why is it that a strike wouldhave been good in 03. Then the union striked in 06,but came back for the same contract that they went outover. This year it sounds like you were offered an even worse contract and the union suported it. In these contracts wha is it the the union istrying to get? The whole concept of the union is new to me so I find the process interesting. There also seems to be alot of discontent between the union members. John you seem to think that with out the union the company will screw the workers every chance they get, why do feel this way? If the company screws the employee every chance they get why not go work for a company that values their employees? If enough good empoyees leave and the company can not hire new good employees they willbe forced to change their ways. Isn't that the concept of the free market?
Guess So.
The free market should remain free. The Union is part of that process. The company doesn't have to have a contract with the Union. They can opt out anytime after the contract has expired. By law they have to negotiate in good faith if the majority of their workers want to unionize.
I'm sure that you are not Union since you are asking these questions. Curious though to search out some answeres. My guess is that either you are either retired military, or a fairly young employee new to the workforce. To me anyone under 50 is young. Happens with age.
In conclusion, this Union is here to stay. It is your best hope for fair and decent wages and representation. You can either be a part of it or not. It's your choice in a "Right to work state". Do some research on our history, talk to a steward, talk to an oustie, check out our website. Get as much information as you can and make an informed decision. I'll be glad to answer any other questions you have. Understand though that I don't claim to know everything and I could get somethings wrong. I do not represent the Union, just my own personnal perspetive of being a Unionist.
Oh, crap. I lost the first part of this Blog. The Guess So. was the second part of my blog because I went over the 4096 limit again. I had alot of good info there for you. I will redo it, but for right now I need a little break. I'll get back later and try to recreate the first part.
Back again.
Let me see if I can recall the first part of my post.
There are plenty of places to get info, not just here, but our website 1am933.org. Not the hijacked iam933.net set up by the ousties to misinform the hourly workforce. Talk to a steward, he'll help answer you questions.
Why 03? Because Raytheon was in transition. They had aquired TI, just like they did Hughes and GD. They moved TI's product line from Lewisville Texas to Tucson. I went to Lewisville back then. I was a steward at that time. When the Lewsiville employees learned I was a steward, they approched me with questions about the union and told me their stories. The resented us because we were taking their work away, their jobs. I don't blame them. Anyway, they had contractors who had been there for years getting low pay and no benifits working right along side of the regular TI employees. They told me that TI had been a good company to work for, then after Raytheon came along things got worse. Those who had worked hard and gotten to the top of their pay scale were scared, because Raytheon would find a reason to lay them off and hire a cheaper paid contractor. So now they were afraid of getting a promotion.
06, The company was in a much better position. Everything had transitioned from TI and everything was up and running. But people were upset at Raytheon and still had lingering anger, we were very close to a strike back in 03. So we went out to show the company that we would do it. I don't think they belived we would strike. But we did. There were supposed members there at that contract meeting who were yelling "Strike, strike, strike" the negotiating committee told us all not to vote to strike if we couldn't stay out at least 3 months. They said don't think we'll be going back in in two weeks. That this would last through the holidays into the first of the year. We'll some of those calling for a strike the loudest crossed the picket line in the first 2 weeks. They are traitors. As I see it there are four types of people in our labor force. The true Unionists, we'll stick together no matter what. It's called solidarity, not just a word. Then the are the Ousties, who are mistaken in their ideas, but at least they are true to their ideals. Then there are the freeloaders, they are the ones who wouldn't sign the decertification petition because they like the protection and benifts the Union affords them, but their to cheap to pay their fair share. Then there are those traitors. They are the worst of the lot. They were never really were true members anyway and although our locals ranks have shrunk, we are much better off without them. I'll take an oustie or a freeloader as a member over those traitors. I despise them.
This was a better contract than I thought they would offer. We took a hit on the medical and pass throughs. I knew we would. All of the corporations are passing the higher medical care costs on to their employees. There has to be something done about these runaway costs. I don't belive in big governemt, but we need to do something now.
There is discontent within any group. Talk about discontent. The ousties, fell apart, split up, fractured into differnet divisions.
Your post.
"The whole concept of the union is new to me so I find the process interesting."
You need to look at how the unions were formed. Going back into the 1800's right here in Southern AZ, near Bisbee. A bunch of rail road workers got fed up with low wages, poor working conditions, working long days every day of the week. They went on strike. So, the railroad tycoons, hire goons to beat them and even killed a few. Then because of their political connections they got the Army in to kill a few more Americans on American soil. Round the rest of them up , put the in box cars and hearded them to Texas. Left then out in the middle of nowhere. They tore whole families apart.
Went over again.
John
Why not go somewhere else to work. I have worked at other non-union companies before. Allied Signal up on Oracle. They are now Honeywell. It wasn't to bad there. Lower wages, management was usually fair, but there was a few managers who took advantage of their employees and forced them to work OT when they didn't want to. I remember a manager came into the lunch room once during a legitimate unpaid lunch time and ordered everyone back to work right now. If not, he'd show you the door. I remember a couple of good workers who just happened to smoke were outside their building burning one and chatting. A manager passed by them and went into the building. He came back out a couple of minutes later and fired them on the spot.
This is my company not Raytheons. This company was built by Hughes employees and GD employees. Raytheon just happend to be the biggest fish in the pond and swallowed them up. Raytheon has been caught with it's hands in the cookie jar many a time, but due to their polictal connections they get away with it. Just look at Raytheon Engineering, they cooked the books on that one and sold it off. Back when Huges was around, Raytheon became our competitor on secound sourcing product on different lines. They got caught using unapproved subcontractors. They hired alot of our engineering folks at the time. They went out to Massatuchetts. Most were back within a year, citing how terrible to work for Raytheon was and how they tried to cut corners on everything.
I think I got most of the first part of my last post.
John
John
The information you provide in your comments illustrates the level of representation this union provides the hourly ranks. As a casual observer I feel for the hourly workers. That’s all I’m going to say in this matter. Its time for me to move on.
I am actually anactive military member thinking about getting out and doing some research on companies in Tucson, the biggest one in town appears to be Raytheon.John I appreciate all of your info on unions, But are they really stillneeded in todays work place. A company ca not legally just fire somebody for no reason, we have laws to protect the workers. You talk about mandatory OT, I know all about that but we don't get paid any for working more more than our 40 hr week.I have worked 16 hours in the field only to come home get the mandatory 8 hr crew rest then back out to the field for another 14 hrs. And no I am not deployed we do this here in the states. I am not complaining I love my job and I enjoy serving this great country.
I am a former USAF member, and work out at Raytheon. I don't agree with everything John says about the Company, nor the working conditions. Most of what he says is true regarding history, but I can't compare 19th century railroad conditions to the 21st century. Today things are different from years gone by. I think the unions services are outdated like 28,8k modems. I don't think our conditions would get like the ones at Honeywell, or any of the sweat shops because of DoD laws over defense prime contractors force the Company to do different. Pay would be better for the Technically Educated, and the rest of the workforce would stay stable.
Lots of US labor laws have been written over the past 4 decades of liberal politics and the workers have plenty of protections. There are 12.000 workers in the plant, and only 1.750 of them fall under the labor agreement that the union negotiates. Those are the "protected workers". The other 10.000 plus, have no contract, nor steward to protect them. I have not seen one hourly worker get promoted to the salaried ranks and then turn around to come back. They always stay "upstairs". Ask yourself "why"? Its because Raytheon is one of the top 100 Companies to work for in the USA. Is it perfect? No. Are there trade offs when exchanging labor union protection for salaried privilege? Yes.
John is a committed unionist at Raytheon. He believes things would get worse if the Union were not protecting workers. I am one of those who doesn't think this is necessarily true. To John's credit, he has recently decided to confront the non unionists and Ousties in the debate world. His background and knowledge compared to the Ousties will give you the readers to ability to decide what is best for you. That is the intent of these pages.
Thanks for your sevice to this great country of ours. You are the one of those that I mentioned will be coming to our door for work/career when you get out of the military. I'm guessing you have a technical background and probably might be working with me in the future. I hope so. If you do please seek me out and say hi.
A lot of the ousties are former retired military. Doug (I believe that it is probably he who posted right after your latest post) is a retired 20 Airforce veteran. Combat Vet too. I only spent 4 years in the Marines, but I understand the military mindset. Now that I'm over 50, I wish I'd gone for 20 too. But that is retrospect.
No, a company can not just legally fire someone without cause, we do have federal laws to protect us there. Guess who championed those laws? Not the corporations. But, they can find other ways to do it legally if they want to. Unions are still necesssary, even more in a defense contrors plant. You know the one I'm talking about.
I know about working long hours in the military. Working your shift, then pulling gaurd duty all night long, a couple hours of sleep and back to your regular duties. Been there done that. That is the military. Your world right now is set up that way because you have to be ready and willing at any moment to go fight to protect us civilians. When you do transition to the civilian world, which it sounds like you are getting close to doing. Things will be different. Your military back ground will always serve you throught the rest of your life, but you can't approach things in the civilian world the way you do now. You will be a little confused and wounder just how in the hell these civies survive, they're all a bunch of spoiled kids and have no idea what the real world is about. It'll take some time but you'll get into the flow of the civilian world.
Whether you join the Union or not is your decision. I hope for the former, but if you choose not to be a member at least now I hope you'll understand why some of us do chose to be in the Union and respect our decision too.
Now in response to the prior post. Sure this is not the 19th century. And things have changed for the better, but don't think we the working class Americans can ever let our gaurd down. Just as our military has to stay prepared, so do we.
Yes, Unions are outdated. I've had a lot of discussions with fellow Union members over the years about how we need to move out of the 1950's mentality and modernize our way of doing business. In these days companies need to be more flexiable. Senority is the biggest issue with Unions and still should be. But I feel we should work with the company to allow them to have more flexibility within the shop. They need to be able to keep certain people that they have invested their energy into where they are. Let senority thrive as far as staying in the plant. But allow the company to retain those in certain areas mutually agreed to by the Union. If that's not clear I'll explain it this way.
Johnnie is a Rambo( This is what I believe Raambos were intended for) and working with engineers in lab X on project X and there is alot of special knowledge and training that Johnnie had to go through to become a competent member of that lab. Now a slow down in the plantsite occurs and the company has to move people around to other areas. Currently, due to senority issues, the company must move Johnnie to another area and put in Bill, who although may be a competent employee doesn't know a damn thing about project X and it will take him a year to get up to speed. Then another adjustment comes alog and Bill has to move too, etc. That is the kind of thing that the Union needs to step up to the plate and correct. To move into the 21st century.
Yup it happened again
John
Part 2.
Damn I'm getting a little tired of this 4096 thing. Who do I complain too?
Yes Doug, and I'm pretty sure the prvious post is yours. You came out of the bushes once and used your name. I wish you'd do that again. I feel that to have an open honest forum here we should let our shield down a little. Anyway, Honeywell is here right now in this 21st century. The account I posted about the mangers firing people and the lunch rooom incident did happen. They did not happen in the 19th century. I'm sure it continues. There are few of our technical and not technical (assemblers) who used to work there and have gotten jobs here at Raytheon. Like Teresa, I recently have learned that she resigned from the Union. I will still like her, she has sharp wit. A little confused at times though. I believe she quit because of her uncertainty about the Union and your constant anti-Union chatter over the last few years. You do work next to her throughout the work day. Anyway those folks left Honeywell, because Raytheon offered better pay, working conditions and benifits than Honeywell did for the hourly people. Wonder why that is? it's because we have the Union here to negotiate them for us.
The reason you have seen no hourly worker that got promoted to the salaried ranks turn back to hourly is there hasn't been enough time to pass yet. The time will come. Right now Raytheon is up and running full speed. They need to keep their workforce happy. The time will come and things will go down hill. Mark my words. There are a lot of former salaried workers like me who in the 80's got the shaft. We came back hourly and have decided to stay hourly because we know what will eventually happen. Those who recently transitioned to salaried have no idea and think everything is rosie right now. They will be singing a diffeent tune in a few years. I do hope the best for them and wish I was wrong, but I'm not.
All of those liberal labor laws that are on the books now, guess who championed them. I know I used that champion word before in this post, but I couldn't think of another word to use right now.
Yes I am a committed Unionist and get more so every day. I made the decision to debate instead of keeping my hatred and anger toward the ousties and freeloaders inside. It has worked to my betterment. My blood pressure is lower these days. It was literally killing me these last few years. I had some really dark days. No more. I'll keep my hatred of the traitors though, I still despise them and will to the day that I die.
Now for my response to an earlier anonymous poster.
"John
The information you provide in your comments illustrates the level of representation this union provides the hourly ranks. As a casual observer I feel for the hourly workers. That’s all I’m going to say in this matter. Its time for me to move on.
Nov 27, 2009 7:59:00 AM"
Thanks for your input and yes it is time to move on. But I will continue to post for as long as there are others who will listen and I hope benifit from it.
Well I'm sure that I've once again gone way over the 4096. Let's see how this works out. I really don't want to have to go back over this again.
John
Out of the bushes and lovin the sunshine.
Ever notice how after you've been up for awhile blogging and have had a couple cups of coffe, you start to feel a little strange, a little disoriented. So, I checked out the fridge for FOOOD. I found some leftover Pumpkin Pie. What a wonderful thing Pumpkin Pie is. AHHH.
I think my blood sugar is getting better now. Anyway, I was reading back over some of the previous posts. A lot of the technical folks feel like they aren't represent well. You are. There are a lot of Union leaders who have come from the technical ranks. Bobby Martinez (Tester) former DBR and now a special rep for the International. Jimbo Watson (Tester) the current DBR, Steve Taylor (Tester) the current ADBR, notice a pattern there Testers? We have Ramon Rodriguiz (Cal Service Tech) currently the treasurer, Val Maldanado (Metrology Tech) Service as Chairman of the community relations committee. Dan Aguarie (Metrology Tech) Community Relations and Exeutive board member. I hope I didn't butcher their last names to much. There are many other Techies in the leadership positions too.
Another thing I'd like to point out. The so call untechnical (asemblers). I don't think their job is all that easy. There is alot of expertise they need to posess in order to build those missiles. There is alot of training and special skills that they must posess to do their job. I doubt any of us Techies could just drop in and easily do their job. It's not like their slapping burgers on a grill and McDonalds. Now that is a non technical job. Those are the local wages that Raytheon constantly tries to compare our wages to the local economy.
Something else I was thinking about. The Unions have taken a hard hit in the last couple of decades. Ronald Regan delivered the hardest blow when he fired the air traffic controllers. Hey, I give him credit for bring down the Berlin wall and stimulating our economy. He gave corporate america a big lift up. I believe he felt he was doing the right thing. Hell I voted for him. Now days the folks who followed in his footstep, the really far right conservatives who like to call themselves "reganists" are really for the most part just working for their special intrests. Not the American people. Don't get me wrong, the Dems aren't either as far as I'm concerned. They have their own special intrests too. They do however support Unions. I saw a bumper sticker that I quite agree with. Democrat Republican same shit different piles. I think that is an accurate assesment of our polictical structure these days. Me, I'm a registered member of the libritarn party. Not really getting anywhere with the loosertarin party. But, I'm working towards a third party, which I belive would break up this damn bi-partisam crap.
Oh, by the way if you didn't know already that last post was from me.
John
Still not hiding in the bushes.
I have seen it on here before how much money this person or that makes and how much profit the company. Please don't take this the wrong way because it is not ment with any disrespect, but why do people seem to think they should make more money because the company was profitable? Isn't that what the company is suppose to do,make money? I agree that in an ideal world everybody would be happy with their wages but a company is only going to pay going rate for its employees, and that rate is normally based on what other companies in the area are paying. You can't compare wages from Tucson to ones in California, Cali has a higher cost of living so the companies pay more. Also the more competion for the employees will cause a company to pay more, that way they can draw the better people. Tucson also lacks job place competion. I think that if we want to get more competion we need to change the way this town deals with businesses. I know this is a stereotype but I am going to throw it out there any way, but unions need to quite supporting the Democrate pary all the time and instead look at the person running for office.A little off track I think but it has always been something that I have not understood about unions, why they support the democrats all the time.
Oh, boy, I can have some fun with this answer!!
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/11/seiu-could-sever-ties-with-california-democratic-party.html
http://seekerblog.com/archives/20091128/biggest-loser-the-union-agenda/
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/11/25/the_candidates_and_the_unions/
http://newdominionproject.com/diary/43/
http://www.publiusforum.com/2009/11/25/have-democrats-been-marginalized-within-their-own-party/
There's just a small sample of the vast amount of spew available on-line on thaat subject.
" I have seen it on here before how much money this person or that makes and how much profit the company. Please don't take this the wrong way because it is not ment with any disrespect, but why do people seem to think they should make more money because the company was profitable?"
Why? because they've made their profits off of our sweat and labor. They should share. Yes, companies do need to be profitable. Is it only Bill Swansown and his other croniies that should make 20% more each year. Damn, I'll bet just one of his bonuses alone would make all of us hourly people happy for life. Several years back, right after Louise took over, this company was hurting finnacialy. At that contract time she said to our negotiating committee, please understand that we don't have the extra money right now to give you raises. When we get more profitiable we will. Well we got more profitable. Why do we still get shafted? We still don't even get the cost of living. Why should we accept that and just take what they'll give us? You have to stand up to them. As the old saying goes, "Stand for something, or stand for nothing at all".
Yes, Cali does have a higher cost of living, even with all those illegals there, but the cost of living in Tucson has skyrocketed ever since GD came to town. You used to ba able to buy a nice house here for 40 to 50 grand back in the 80's. Now more like $200K, at least up until the crash. Our wages haven't kept up with that increase.
Yor're right about Tucsons city counsel, I live in the county and can't vote in your city elections. If I could I'd throw them all out, including that puppet of a mayor Republican Bob Walkup, a Rhino. Guess where he came from before he became mayor? Right he was an exuctive for RAYTHEON.
The unions support Democrats because Dems support labor legislation. They pass laws that help the working joe. Republicans pass laws that help corporations, usually to the detriment of joe. We need good laws for corps to make a profit and provide us with jobs. A lot use those laws republicans pass hold joe down and send work overseas to ying yang, because ying will work for pennys a day. Then Bill gets another $1,000,000 bonus for doing such a good job for the stock holders. Bring those jobs back here if your a real American. Pay prevailing wages, so joe can have a house, food, send his kids to college and maybe take his wife on a cruise once in her life. Is that too much to ask for?
Me, personally I do vote for the cannidate, not the party. I voted for that lame asseed John McCain for prez. Have you ever called his office? What a bunch of jerks they are. So, with that expericence I'm glad Barack got elected. I didn't vote for him, but in retrospect I would have. Give the guy a chance. The last prez that I voted for got us into all this shit. Obviously I don't have a good track record on voting for presidents and I'm one of those "informed voters".
John, Still not hiding in the bushes. How about you?
Hey, what a surprise. I didn't break the 4096 on my latest post this time.
Now for Mister "Oh, boy, I can have some fun with this answer!!"
You're anti-Dem enthusiation is overwhelming. I can see how smart and whitty you think you are. You're shear joy at anything that sheds some negative light on the Dems fills your heart with satisfacton. Like I said before I'm, neither a Dem or Rep, I vote for the canidate, not the party. Not a real good track record I'll admit to that. But, I don't relish with glee over any negativism of either party. This Bi-partisan shit is destroying our country. You and others need to wake up and stop taking Rush, Hannity and the others so seriously. Yes, I listen to them too, but I don't take their words as gospel. They are purely entertainment.
I have no doubt that I could waste my time here on the internet and find hundreds of anti-Republican articles. After all, isn't this the purley Obama liberal press. It is according to Fox and Friends, yes I watch that too. The old saying goes "It's good to keep your friends close and your enemies even closer". Besides I still need to check out those cruise line websites. 2011, will be the year I take her on that cruise. Got to much family time to catch up on in 2010. Got to make a couple of trips out of town to do it.
Well, once again that coffee is kicking in and I'm starting to get that weird feeling from low blood sugar. But there is a remedy, I personally know that there is some pumpkin pie still left in that refrigerator. Ummm, what a wonderful thing. You all should try some. It'll help make you feel better too.
John, Yep I'm still here.
Umm, that pumpkin pie is really great. You should try it some time. It's even better with whipped cream on it. Not so good for the keyboard though.
We had some frozen pizza last night for dinner, it was excellent. I have to remind her to buy that brand again. We don't get delivery out here in the sticks so a good frozen pizza is great. There is still two pieces left, but I'll save that for lunch.
What happend to Jeff? He seemed to go away after I started posting here. I could use a little Union reinforcement here. Another bite of pie, ummm good.
It's so nice to have this time off from work. Thank God for Unions, otherwise we'd have all been at work instead.
Next up, Cruise lines.
John
Sorry, I can't help it my mind gets get to rolling to much at times and it won't stop until I finnaly fade off into the night.
I did spend a few minutes checking out the cruise line though. Check this out, what great last minute deals are out there. I'll have to remmeber to wait and book when they have the last minute deals.
http://www.crucon.com/thanksgiving2009_main.htm
Incredible. It cost me more than some of those crusies , just to stay here at home over a weekend.
Anyway, I got to think about those perks for executives, like the free parking for Taylor at the airport. I can understand paying for it, after all he is the Prez of Raytheon Missile Systems and a VP for Raytheon Corporate. But, why should we subsidise it? Taylor Lawrence, talk about diversity in action here at Raytheon. I see rainbows everywhere. Hey, nothing personal, just rambling on right now. I'll bet he will be thenext Bill Swanson.
Anonymous for a reason. I'll duck into the bushes this time.
Where is everybody? Remember, I need something to do in the wee hours.
Okay, for your entertainment.
"We the few, have done so much with so little for so long that we can now do the impossible with nothing"
I think that's how it goes.
I'm really enjoying these days off from work. I've done alot of fixing up around this place, since I had been doing nothing so it wouldn't cost me any money just in case we went on strike.
Well I have one more day off, then back to work for a few weeks, then another couple of weeks off.
Thank God for Unions, I wouldn't get that paid time off without them. Neither would you.
John
The Union Steward
Since I had no recent posts to comment on I had to go back to some older postings.
"It is time for all the free loaders to join the union or get rid of it. And by free loaders I mean all those people who want the union but won't join it and won't sign our petition to decertify it. Those people make me sick. They are totally useless breathers. They want something for nothing. This country wasn't built by sitting on a fence. And it won't be saved by sitting on your butt either. Either join the union or get rid of it, but do SOMETHING! And these freeloaders are probably the one's eating up most of the union's time representing their slacker butts."
We can agree 100% here. I disagree with you ousties on issues but, at least your not on the fence. You have taken some action. I did not like it at first, but you have actually done a great benifit to kick this Union in the butt and we've woken up. It's too easy to get complacent and that is what we were doing for the last couple of decades. The Union has spent too much time on stupid PC social issues. I hope to help and keep us directed towards what really matters to joe. Good working conditions, good pay and benifits. That is what Unions are for. Not for womens issues, or Hispanic rights, etc. Hey, we should ensure everyone in this Union is represented fairly, Women, Hispanic or Anglo. I like the idea our Union represents the community too. Food drives, Christmas in April and the food bank, just to name a few. I went and help out at the food bank once. I felt teriffic and had a great time. I plan on doing that again.
Yes, you are right. Those freeloaders use alot of a stewards time. We stewards get alot of flack from our members for doing it, but it is still our job to represent them too. We don't like it, but if your a good steward you will do your best to enforce the contract. Even if it means representing an oustie or the even most detesable FREELOADER.
John
Well, I decided to go right back to the beginning. Guess you ousties started this blogright after we went out on strike. I had heard, but didn;t want to read. Ifelt it'd piss me off to much. Well, I should have read it before. There are alot of serious missconceptions here. I'll pick just one comment from the first posting. There is so much I could post about on your first blog, but I have to be realistic and jsut pick one.
"Superbia Parti said...
To anonymous (April 16),
There is no ignorance my friend.
We've seen too much of this union already. Many of us were told "If you want to change the union, join it." Quite the opposite is true. It changes people after they join, not the other way around. We can best change things by doing what we are doing now. This union chose to fight the wrong battles, now it's days are numbered. If any of you share our spirit, have Oust 933 t-shirts made and wear them with pride!
Jan 19, 2008 9:25:00 PM"
Do you truely understand why they change once they become member? It's because they get it. They see what Unions are truely about and what good they can do for all. They stop being self centered. Join and you'll learn too. Yes, we have fought some wrong battles, but this wasn't one of them. As you know by now our days aren't numbered. We're still here and still can be effective. Join with us for all of our betterment.
John
Anonymous said...
I really like reading back on the older posts and see how inaccurate they are. They're easy pickens.
"Sponge Bob's side sick said...
...We were lied to over and over and over, and everyone is gonna see just how bad the lies are come monday. There won't be "re-work", there won't be government rejections of product. You'll see for yourself. I'll take my chances in a dream world over chances with proven liers any day.
Sounds like someone is waking up and smelling the coffee!
Its LONG OVER DUE to get the union OUT of our lives! Too bad we must wait another 3 years! :(
I can't wait to see the look on some of the union members faces when they are being TRAINED by a salary worker! Oh how I wish I could have a camera for that one!!
Yes, a lot of union members are in for a "rude awakening" when they come back to work! I wouldn't doubt if a lay off is right around the corner!
Jan 18, 2007 1:57:00 PM"
Just who lied? I know for a fact the company lied. Ol Bob Lepore told quite a few fairy tales after we got back. There was alot of re-work. When they couldn't pass it off on the government inspector they used their political influence and he was sent to another program. They got their guy in who allowed them to pass the junk off and stick it in storage for us to fix later.
Looks like you'll have to wait another 3 years to try and get rid of us Unionists. But, perhaps since time has past, maybe you've relized the misconceptions you had back then.
I saw the look in your eyes when we came back. Yea, the salaried had to "retrain us", what a joke, our people know the job, it was as if the caboose was telling the engine what to do. That camera would have gotten you fired.
What happened to that layoff? How out of touch you really were back then. I really hope you have learned more since.
Anyway my intent here is not to put you or any one else down. It's just that it's time that we get together and do what's right. The Union isn't perfect, but it is the vehicle to get done what we all so much need being done.
John
Okay, I'll give it a break for now.
Hey, what happened? Has this become only the blog of John? Just a personal little space in cyberland to post my rants, Jez, seriously, I've hit the cruise lines wewbsites so much lately that I'm beginning to think I've already been on a cruise.
Well, I listened to Good Morning America yeasterday and got a list of websites to check out for Black Monday.
What about this weather? Last week I was in a tee-shirt and shorts. We got the new furniture in on Friday. Looks & feels great, Wife is very happy. Then a new Thermaspa comes at the end of January. I've got my work cut out there. I need to work on the deck, pour a pad and run the electrical. There will definatley be a big party out here come early Feb. That sucker holds up to 12 people. That is one good thing about saving for a strike. I had built up quite a savings for it. Now I'll blow it on some nice things for her. Paid cash for everything and still have some left over. Still I must now work OT to rebuild it in the next 3 years.
Perhaps I'll go back and look at some of the older postings again.
John
Dougie siad.
" Anonymous said...
I am the Oustie that was at the roadside rally on Wednesday. I was invited by the Treasurer, and my Steward. We Ousties have moved toward the Union lately, believing they got the message and would the fix the skilled trade pay problems. But this contract doesn’t fix a thing. Today we saw craptacular copies of the last-best-final offer. The Union's negotiators failed to represent all of the workers fairly. None of the technical fields deserve the low pay set by this contract. It’s a total disregard for skilled labor. Had I joined the Union, I would pay $78.03 a month starting in January. For what?
Oct 30, 2009 7:09:00 PM"
I was the steward who invited him after our treasurer asked me to. At first I thought not. But then I figured what the hell. What is there to lose? I was quite surprised when he showed up. Like I've said before I think it took a alot of balls on his part. I had just been joking about it with another member. We were standing by the first tree after you make that right turn onto Old Nogales RD. I'd made a little quip about how if he showed we'd get a rope. Anyway a couple of minutes later I turned and saw him approaching. I dropped my jaw. ate a little crow. He was well recievied by those in the immediate area. including the ADBR,the treasurer and a couple of others in the Union leadership. The committee and DBR were at the negotiations at the time.
A few days later he asked me to pass some info on percieved pay disparity to the Union leadership. I thought, what have I gotten myself into. I do not want to do the bidding of the ousties. Anyway I did pass that info along and also got himm the info that he asked of me for regarding the labor force occupations and numbers. Actually that might have come first. Which was the last piece needed to crate that pie chart you see posted here.
Well I acted as a conduit, nothing more. I did my part to try and bring us all togther. That is why I'm posting lately. Hopefully you will learn something about Unions.I'll gladly pay my $78.03 a month or more if that's what it takes.
John
I thought I'd spend a moment to explain the "RONA" issue. I think I've already explaind the 9/80 issue enough.
I think it was Bill Richardson, the Prez prior to Louise. Fine set of Kankles there. Anyway, when Rona was first started and promoted RONA back in the 90's He said that it would never be used as a bargaining tool. That it was there for all of Hughes employees as an incentive to drive down the cost of doing business. Find an inefficent process, etc. You're empowered to make a change that will save the company money and then we will share a portion of those savings with all of our employees. When Lousie became the Prez things somehow changed. The next contract the company offered only the Rona instead of GWI. Our negotiating committee said no, we want a GWI. Louise said it would not be fair to offer us both the RONA and the GWI. Our committe then asked, will we have some input on what the RONA would be? They said no. It could be as little as 0%. That didn't seem fair. That is why the Union pushed for GWI's instead. If you look at things in the long run a GWI is far superior to an SWP or a RONA. Hell, they don't even call it a RONA anymore, their matrices have changed. Of course after that contract all you heard from the freeloaders and other anti-unionists is that the Union rejected the RONA. How stupid, why would anyone reject money? They said you can still give us RONA but we want a GWI for our membership to keep up with the cost of living. Louise said it wouldn't be fair, but why is it fair for the salaried to get both a RONA and a GWI? Why is it not fair for the bargainning Unit? So here we are many years later and you are all still bitching to the Union about the RONA, bitch to mangement about it. It's their fault, their greed as to why they will no longer share the RONA that you rightfully deserve.
OH, that was me again.
John, still not hiding in the bushes and not in trouble (protected) with the Union either.
Listen, I'm serious. I want discourse. I want to read your postings and clear up any misconceptions that you have. I know it's been a long vacation. If this to become only the blog of John then I'll stop posting. Maybe crate my own blog and post my rants there.
Well, off to work tomorrow (this morning). I've got some new duds to wear at Falcon field. I'll be looking sharp this morning. After 6 days off, it'll be a little harder there this morning, but I'll percivere.
"Endevor to Percivere"
John, The Steward.
John, you are writting too fast to keep up with. Get more sleep! Only a couple of items I have time to reply.
"Thank God for Unions, I wouldn't get that paid time off without them. Neither would you."
Not so fast there John. I don't beleive the other 10 thousand workers here have a union. I didn't hear about them working this weekend neither. We had a shutdown for everyone, not just the bargaining unit.
"I disagree with you ousties on issues but, at least your not on the fence. You have taken some action. I did not like it at first, but you have actually done a great benifit to kick this Union in the butt and we've woken up. It's too easy to get complacent and that is what we were doing for the last couple of decades."
Thank you. The rest of the stewards see us differently. By kicking the union in the butt, what exactly changed? Will they stop international politics? What about fixing the problems that the Ousties fought for? SP has taken a month long break. He used to write all the time. We are Waiting for a new post. I would love to see the new perspective after the contract. what happened?
John, Keep going over the past postings. Yea, many are obsolete. Better late than never. The others will pipe up when they put their glasses on, or whenever they are up to it. The brings legitimacy to debate. Let the observers decide.
Douglas
I really wish I could get more sleep. I will deal with that after the holidays. I've got a feeling this sleep thing is only temporay anyway.
Sure, the salaried got the holiday off too. But they only got it because the unions have fought for it in the past. If the unions hadn't fought for it, nobody would have it off. This was won by unions long before you or I came into the picture.
I claim by no means to be the smartest egg on the block. I have heard there are some other stewards out there that have heard I'm posting on your blog and want to talk to me about it. But, they haven't come forward to me about it yet. Not sure whether they see this as a good thing or not. I have always gone my own way. Sure I might run with the heard once in a while, but mostly on my own. I'm a Union Steward by choice and also because there are too few who want to deal with these issues. There is no monetary or any other physical benifit to being a Steward. Just the satisfaction of every once in awhile getting to help a fellow worker. Most of the time it just makes you a target for those who want to bitch and complain.
What changed us by being kicked in the butt? Like I've said before the Union gets complacent and spends far to much time on PC crap, womens, hispanic rights, etc. Not that there are issues that need our attention, but we need to stay focused on our core priorities. The workforce in the plant. Not that we don't, but I believe that sometimes we get our priorities out of wack. The kick to the butt wakes you up and you think about your core priorities more.
No, I doubt the International will ever get out of politics. They shouldn't any more than the corporations. Corporations throw a lot at lobbying and trying to influeance policy. there are many more of them than there are Unions We need a voice too. I hear and read alot about the Unions influcance on talk radio. I believe that corporations have a much bigger chunk of congresses ear than we do, I know for a fact that Bush and Cheney allowed corporation lobbiests to write much of their policy. There was no Union influence there.
I understand what the ousties issues are and for the most part agree to some extent. But I see the bigger picture, not just my own occupations picture. There is much more to it than just wages. Also, like I said before, our assemblers are not just flapping burgers. They are very highly skilled too. maybe not as much education or expertise as our occupation but skilled none the less.
Yes, I wish SP would come back to this forum. I wish more on both sides would come back to this forum. I atleast hope they are reading my posts so that they will understand more.
I'll go back and look over some more of the old posts and see if there is anymore that I can shed my perspective on. Like I said befoe I will keep posting as long as I get some feedback. If the feedback stops then I'll stop posting.
John, still not hiding in the bushes.
Hey, thanks for using your name Doug. I think we should all come out of the bushes.
Here is an older post that I found intresting.
"I am a tester who crossed during the last strike and will cross during any future strikes. This is because the union has never represented my interests and due to the fact that testers are a minority at RMS, they never will. I don't really care, I have been harassed by union members and threatened also and now it is to the point where I hope they do strike. Bunch of brainless sheep following their brainless leaders. Look at the obvious "representatives" of the union posting here (HAHA dude among others.) Raving and unable to join in an intelligent conversation. Meerely spouting rhetoric and not solving anything. I also have heard the new rumors that are rampant on plant site. The company is evil and they want to take away your weekends off, they are making you pay for more of your benefits, etc, etc, etc. What a bunch of bull. What a bunch of losers.
Oct 23, 2009 10:36:00 PM"
I really wish I had come to this Blog before now. Perhaps I could have done more. I didn't want to come here because I was on edge and concerned that i might just blow a fuse. Yes, there are alot of things I have read in this blog that irritate me, but it has also allowed me to understand others perspective, misguided or not.
This tester here is obviously pissed off at the Union. When I first became a Union member I used to harras those who were not members, but soon realized that was not a good tactic. I learned that it was much better to be friendly and when asked or questions by non-members to talk rationaly on why I believe it was better to be Union than not. It worked sometimes and usually only after many conversations. I've never been pushy about people joing the Union. I truly belive that if you come to the conclusion to join on your own, that you'll be a more committed member. Most who have felt that they were pushed into membership come back to hating the union for those reasons. I've seen alot of posts by a former union member since the strike. I'm willing to bet that they were never really true union members and had been pushed into their membership and resented it.
We are not sheep. Just come to a meeting once and a while and you'd realize that members speak up and question the leadership all the time. Brainless? No, just as smart as the rest of our fellow workers, some smarter than others, some not so smart.
Loosers? Never, we may not make the big score, but we keep swinging and as long as we do that we have a chance at being winners. You'd have us lay down the bat. Then we'd all really lose big time.
Testers are a minority, cal techs like me are even less. Like I've mentioned before, the past DBR, the current DBR and the current ADBR are testers. You testers are represented.
United together we can make a difference, the company would have to listen to our concerns.
John
Now for a comment on the current news. Did any of you watch President Obamas address last night? I did.
Like I said before I didn't vote for him. I voted for John McCain and before that Bush. Last night I saw and heard a true Commander and Chief or our military.
I'm really curious to see how the conservative talk radio shows and Fox will spin this. I'll hear a little later on my way to work. Although Don Imus doesn't really spin much of anything. But when I'm at Falcon field I watch Fox an Friends and they spin a lot. On my way home I usually listen to John C Scott, because I like to hear the local issues. Today though I will listen to Hannity and see how he spins it.
John
John said:
"What happend to Jeff? He seemed to go away after I started posting here. I could use a little Union reinforcement here."
I am still around. Just sitting back and seeing what others are posting. A lot of the stuff being said now applies mainly to your local. Since I am NOT a part of your local I can't really make comments about those things.
I can, and will, say that I am sure the local does more on a daily basis than most of the employees will ever know. Most of what the Union does is done without the membership knowing. Things like pay issues, making sure people get promoted/laid off properly, making sure the company doesn't change conditions of employment without negotiating too much more to list them all.
I am involved with this sort of thing on an almost daily basis. The company will do what they feel they can get away with and it is the union's responsibility to ensure it is done within the contract. This goes way beyond just negotiating the contract. But since there are only a few people that really know what is going on, most of the members think the union is sitting back and napping or something.
as always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!!!
Looks like these workers knew a good thing, didn't they?
http://www.wgal.com/money/21782480/detail.html
There's going to be a DBR election in a few days. Jimbo Watson VS Louis Martinez. Also three Negotiation Committee slots are open, with four people running. Three of them presently hold the slot, with one newcomer, Dan Aguirre is anew candidate. What do the incumbants have that warrants re-election? What do the challengers have that makes you want change? Any takers?
flash was another dbr runner.
If you wanted us to convert, you should have gotten us the money. majority doesn't alway rule.
clarification i meant flash was a dbr runner the previous time which i was replying to a earlier statement.
The original post asks "Are you Happy?"
For me, right at this moment I am, Why? Look at the time of my post! I actually slept the whole night. Yea, first time in months. But, it does cut into my posting time.
Anyway I have to respond to:
"If you wanted us to convert, you should have gotten us the money. majority doesn't alway rule.
Dec 3, 2009 10:39:00 AM"
It's not all about the money! I like money too, I doubt there is not one person on the committee who doesn't like money. The company likes money too, the more in Bill Swanson and Taylor Lawrence pockets the better as far as their concerned. They give us less, because folks like you will not support the united efforts of the Union to get you better wages. So, if your upset about the MONEY, you have only yourself to blame.
Flash was not nominated for DBR this time. He was nominated after Bobby Martinez left. At that time it was Flash and Jimbo running for it and Jimbo won by an overwhelming majority. Flash is a good guy, he knows the parlimentary rules, he's like a living dictionary. Anyone who attends Union meetings regularly knows that. When there is controversy on the floor, Flash can settle the rules quite quickly. Way before anyone else can grab the Bi-laws and figure it out. I'm not sure if I can remember him making the wrong call. He's Geekish that way. Unfortunately like most Geeks, they are smart, but don't have the right set of communication skills. Jimbo does have those skills. Jimbo is smart too, though not in a geekish way like Flash. I do not mean to put Flash down here. He is a great guy. He was my first steward in the 90's.
I had a pay issue way back then, I filed a grievance with Flash. It seemed to take too long to get resolved (a few months) I was riding Flash towards the end. I thought he just didn't care, was a lazy assed so and so steward. Well guess what. He had done his job, one day I got a check for over $1500.00. He never said a thing. He didn't come to me and brag all about how great a job he'd done. Nether did Bobby Martinez who was the Chief Steward at the time. Those guys don't care about praise, they just do the job. They don't bitch much either like you and me.
Well this has been fun, but I've gotta get ready and head out for Falcon field, then to work.
John, yea I have to say it. Still not hiding in the bushes, how about you?
Not sure what happend to my post, it's been a few minuts since I posted and I still do not see it. Well, gotta go.
John
Nov 27, 2009 5:01:00 AM
"As I see it there are four types of people in our labor force."
List of four removed
John, you poor misguided soul, you have it wrong. You're making it way too complex.
An Oustie can be a traitor by resigning their membership of the union, yet they're welcomed with open arms if the reverse is true and become a unionist and start to pay their fair share.
Oh, I've seen that many times. It's the "show me the money" problem that's at the crux of this discussion.
You can't have a problem with the 'freeloaders' if they're paying their dues, you call them your misguided children that are protected by that cloak of unionism.
It's attitudes like that that will keep your membership ranks low, I hate to say.
I am not complaining, I am explaining what is happening and how it is extremely unfair that the "majority" (assembly) which has less skill and training gets nearly the same pay as the lowest technical skill (test) which has some aspects that do not deem it to be the lowest. Anyway, all the technical skills should be at least 6 dollars higher, but that money evidently was used to fortify the "majority." This has been an issue for many years and has never been corrected so the correction factor is to withhold membership, until this is set straight, that is only fair. Just as you do not buy shoddy merchandise even though they tout it as the greatest in all those infomercials, if you buy it and it falls apart 5 minutes
after you buy it, you try to get a refund and try not to fall for a scam again. Most people I know want to get their money's worth when they buy (into) something they do not like to be taken.
So if they say join and will get you what you want and then the promise is not fulfilled you feel cheated and you want your money (dues) back which is not going to happen or you stay out and wait to see what they are going to do and as time goes by you have not lost your money in a money pit.
It is really simple about the representation of all workers for the general benefits that being a given, but to put most of your backing behind one group that happens to have the greatest population is ludicrous. If you pay your fair share of dues, why be left out? If every wage was proportional to the actual skill level, then I truly believe there would be a phenomenal growth in membership, because there would be a show of really caring instead of a talking head with no substance. I think there are alot of Missourians out there that are shouting out, "Show Me."
Do you think Watson as next DBR cares about the cal techs dilemma concerning wages? I think the cal techs know the answer, which is why the majority of cal techs do not want this union’s representation. I really think Watson is more concerned about keeping his current wages as DBR than his wages as a Labor grade 11 pseudo tester.
-Bill
I've gotta a feeling that this will be a long rant here. I've been up for awhile rereading most of this post, including my own. Damn, I sure wish there was spell check here.
This is actually a great post, short, well spoken. A lot I have to work with.
Anonymous said...
Looks like these workers knew a good thing, didn't they?
http://www.wgal.com/money/21782480/detail.html
Dec 3, 2009 4:04:00 AM
I checked that link out. A lot to say here on this. Harley Davidson. I love Harleys. I have a 1975 Shovelhead, thats a FXE Superglide forthose of you who don't know what a Shovelhead is. I've owned it for years, rebuilt it a couple of times. It's a beauty and has been sitting in my shop for a year now, broken, because I wanted to save if we went out on strike. Now that we haven't I'll fix it and be riding by fair weather again.
First of all Harley Davidson is represented by the IAM. Same international as we are. A seven year contract, that is the only really bad deal here. That is way to long. Three years is the MOST you should ever negotiate for. Three is a little long too. To much can change over the couse of 3 or 7 years. You need the ability to adjust for the times. We could have a bad economey, like now, or a great economy. If inflation hits like the 80's then you need to be able to get higher wages to offset that inflation. Our inflation is low right now, so the measely
2 3/4% we got this year is not rally measly., compared to a 3% or 4% we got in a previous contract during more inflationary times. By the way we actually got 3%, the other 1/4% is the dollars that they will be putting into a flex account for us to use for medical. Yes, that is before tax money which makes it even worth more to us.
Well I know I must be getting close to 4096 so I'll post this and contine in the next posting.
John
So, getting back to that Harley Davidson link.
We are in rough economic times. Folks aren't buying Harleys like they were a few years ago. We are much more fortunate, because everybudy is buying our missles right now. That will change and we will need to be prepared for it when that time comes and it will.
This plant has gone through some slow downs before and had to lay people off. Luckily for our Union, they have recall rights and may have to go somewhere else for a short time and work for lower wages and no representation. But guess what? When they get called back, they come back. Why? Because we have a Union here that has negotiated them a better deal than where they went too.
So, when that time comes, and it will. We too will have to step back, take it in the shorts and hunker down. That's what those Harley folks are doing now. They don't like the deal they got, but keeping the work in their plant is paramont. They will have their day again, they just have to wait. But, hey 7 years is a long time. Companys want a long contract, so they don't have to deal with negoiations again for a while. Unions like short contracts, sure it is a pain for us too, but it gives us the opportunity to seek more for our membership.
From the Harley link.
"Workers had a week and a half to look over the nearly 60-page contract, but on the day of the vote, some felt the same way they did the first day they received it -- it wasn't a good deal, but one they had to take."
Damn, wouldn't that be nice. A week, hell I'd be happy with a day. We won't see our contract for a few more weeks, just the highlights and then once the contract comes out, we see things we didn't get in the hightlights. That contract issue is the company's responsibility, they like to feed us little snipets, keep us in the dark and make us wait for the whole story until after we've voted. We spend the next several years iorning out the details of the contract, just in time to start negotiations for a new contract. Like I said before, our negotiating committee works very hard. Their job doesn't end with a ratification.
Well anyway, the Harley workers did what they had to do to survive and keep their plant. Sometimes you have to suck it up and take what the man is giving. Fight the best you can and just try to make the best out of a raw deal. Life is not always fair, hell it is never fair.
Just a last minute thought here. Those Harley folks make alot more $ than we do, why? Because they have had a large Union membership for a long time. There aren't any ousties there and very few, if any freeloaders. I think they are 100% Union in their labor force. That's what a truely united labor force will get you. Sure, they took it in the shorts this time, but wait 7 years and see what they get.
Well I think I beat this one into the bushes. I like that word the "bushes". Well, the neighbors dog is making alot of racket out back. The last time he did that a mountain lion was snooping around. I better make sure my doors are locked and my gun close by.
John, Still not hiding in the bushes.
By the way, I forgot to thank Jeff Go IAM..... for posting again. Thanks Jeff.
Sure you're not a member of our local, but you were standing up for it long before I started posting. The ousties found out who you were and you hunkerd down for awhile. You never know what some might do to you when you step up and speak out. When you become the "Point Man" you will be the first to take fire. But, by our nature we will take that chance, because we belive in our cause.
Once again thanks, and please feel free to comment on any of our local issues, because they are the same as yours.
Well, once again I didn't sleep much. But, hey I did get caught up last night and I have Saturday off. I will work Sunday for DOUBLE TIME, PREMIUM PAY. Unions got that for me, and I'm sure there are lots of freeloaders and ousties that will be working this Sunday too for that Union negotiated Double time. You freeloaders complain about paying dues, just a couple of your OT hours will pay your months dues. You truely are a bunch of friggin freeloaders.
John
Let's see, I'm really not sure how to respond to this post.
""Anonymous said...
Nov 27, 2009 5:01:00 AM
"As I see it there are four types of people in our labor force."
List of four removed
John, you poor misguided soul, you have it wrong. You're making it way too complex.
An Oustie can be a traitor by resigning their membership of the union, yet they're welcomed with open arms if the reverse is true and become a unionist and start to pay their fair share.
Oh, I've seen that many times. It's the "show me the money" problem that's at the crux of this discussion.
You can't have a problem with the 'freeloaders' if they're paying their dues, you call them your misguided children that are protected by that cloak of unionism.
It's attitudes like that that will keep your membership ranks low, I hate to say.
Dec 4, 2009 8:18:00 AM""
Me, a misguided soul? Well, maybe, but not on this issue.
Not sure why you removed the list of four?
ousties, freeloaders, traiters (the real scum) and Unionists. Simple really not complex at all.
Did I really post "freeloaders, misguided children?" Not sure I did, but hey I'll take your word for it.
Yea, membership ranks are low, but they're the true members. So, I don't relly give a shit, except for the fact that I know the company will listen to our demands if we are strong and have 100% membership and stay together, hold the line.
John
Okay, another. I'm on a roll again, but I do need to try and get back to sleep, if for only another hour.
"Anonymous said...
I am not complaining, I am explaining what is happening and how it is extremely unfair that the "majority" (assembly) which has less skill and training gets nearly the same pay as the lowest technical skill (test) which has some aspects that do not deem it to be the lowest. Anyway, all the technical skills should be at least 6 dollars higher, but that money evidently was used to fortify the "majority." This has been an issue for many years and has never been corrected so the correction factor is to withhold membership, until this is set straight, that is only fair"
Hey, I'd love another $6 an hour. I make a pretty good wage as it is. Yes, I've heard that our occupation makes more at other DOD plants. Maybe so. Listen, as I see it we/you have three years to come up with a plan to present to the Union and the company to try and fix this disparity. Well, let's work together to come up with that plan. Forget about complaining that the assemblers make to much. Just concentrate on fixing the disparity. I really think a $6 adjustment is going to be a little to hard for the company to swallow, but how about starting with a $1 and slowly incrementing it upwards over the next few years to achieve that goal of yours.
I will gladly step up and act as a mediator to bring you guys to the table with the union leadership. Now is the time. Let's put our past behind us and coordinate together. I don't really care much about getting you into the Union. I'd like too, but it's not necessary to achieve our common goal.
Just come out of the bushes, let's get this meeting together and work out a plan that will mutually benifit us all. Stop being afraid.
John,
I'm really happy to see some more postings out there. I was starting to get fed up with the "John Blog".
Anonymous said...
It is really simple about the representation of all workers for the general benefits that being a given, but to put most of your backing behind one group that happens to have the greatest population is ludicrous. If you pay your fair share of dues, why be left out? If every wage was proportional to the actual skill level, then I truly believe there would be a phenomenal growth in membership, because there would be a show of really caring instead of a talking head with no substance. I think there are alot of Missourians out there that are shouting out, "Show Me."
Dec 4, 2009 12:20:00 PM
Ludicris, hey, you're smart too.
I think I pretty much answered this in my last posting.
Thanks, though.
John
Bill, obviously, you've been around for awhile "Labor grade 11 tester". That is old Hughes Legacy. So you know the ropes.
"Anonymous said...
Do you think Watson as next DBR cares about the cal techs dilemma concerning wages? I think the cal techs know the answer, which is why the majority of cal techs do not want this union’s representation. I really think Watson is more concerned about keeping his current wages as DBR than his wages as a Labor grade 11 pseudo tester.
-Bill
Dec 4, 2009 10:31:00 PM"
Do I think Jimbo really cares about the cal techs delema? No, I don't. But the cal tech/testers delema is not the whole picture, it's a part, but there is a lot more at stake here. Actually I don't belive the majority of the cal techs aren't in the Union. A larger percentage than assemblers, yes there are a lot of them who aren't Unionists (remember the free loaders? But, I believe the majority of cal techs are Unionist and alot of them our leaders.
Well Bill, and I do thank you for using your name, you're not hiding in the bushes. But, it's getting late and my mind is getting a little rattled. So, I'll give it a rest for the night and hit the couch for "hopefully" a little more sleep before the sun comes up.
John
Okay, I just had one more thought.
What happened to "Superbia Parti" a very intelligent poster. Missinformed in my opinion, but I'd love a little discourse with you. I can tell from your posting you are intelligent and have a wicked sense of humor. Let's get together and fix our delema.
Now for some sleep, later.
John
Really for sure this time.
John
What, it's been over an hour and nobody else has posted yet!!! Hey, I got anther hours sleep and I'm good for the day. I'll check back much later.
John
John Dec 5, 2009 4:27:00 AM
Did I really post "freeloaders, misguided children?" Not sure I did, but hey I'll take your word for it.
Not directly, but someone did...
Your union is full of freeloaders who pay dues and don't do a damn thing. Lazy good for nothing wannabees that wait for other people to do the mental work of negotiating for their own well being.
Seems to be synonymous to me, no?
Yet, your collective considers these members 'true members'. Quite simple, actually, this is really black-and-white: any paying member is a true member, John! YOU might not consider it as such, but there are those in your organization who do; and it matters to them. I doubt that 933 has EVER turned down a membership, has it?
"So, I don't relly give a shit, except for the fact that I know the company will listen to our demands if we are strong and have 100% membership and stay together, hold the line."
Once again, you've never had anything close to 100% membership in the entire 50-odd year length of 933's existence.
The company will listen to, and promptly ignore the demands of 100% of the bargaing unit (again), simply because the company continues to be able to do the work with or without you being there. That's been proven once; it may be proven again in 2012.
Really, if you cared about the hourly technical staff, you would seriously consider removing a couple of key occupations from 933 and creating a second bargaining unit for their own representation. Being all lumped together really isn't working out too well; that $1/hr raise for the technical occupations will never be reached this way.
The status quo needs to be challenged. Bullshitting about this on-line? Nice, but it's still not enough. This needs to go to the next level.
"Those Harley folks make alot more $ than we do, why? Because they have had a large Union membership for a long time. There aren't any ousties there and very few, if any freeloaders. I think they are 100% Union in their labor force. That's what a truely united labor force will get you. Sure, they took it in the shorts this time, but wait 7 years and see what they get."
Why seven years? Looks like the prior contract was only two years? Nope; it was three, but why did they enter negotiations a year early??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson#2007_workers.27_strike
Look like "the man" stuck it in their shorts, didn't they?
We thought it was bad to have a four year contract, didn't we?
I can't believe this happened again. I spent nearly an hour writing my last post only to have it diappear into cyberland somewhere. I'll, repost that one again. In the mean time I'll answer the next post. I think in the future if I have a long post I'll make a copy of it first, just in case this happens again.
I took the bait and went to that Harley link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson#2007_workers.27_strike
What are you trying to prove here? They held the line. 100% and they were only out for two weeks before the company caved (they wanted to sell HD in India)and they got most of what they wanted. It doesn't say how it ended in the article, just that the HD workers went on strike over health benefits (sound familiar here) on Feb 2 and the company negotated and the strike was settled on Feb 16. Two Fxxking weeks. Man, That's great Union organization. So if you were trying to put Unions down here with that, you lost big time. You just proved my case for me. Unions win if they stick together and are 100%.
Yes, the last HD contract was 7 years. Who took what in the shorts? Where does it show anyone but the company took it in the shorts? Yes, 7 or 4 years is too long. Should be one year contracts, but then that'd all we'd be doing is negotiating contracts and not getting a whole lot done but that. So, 3 is a good compromise.
John
I think I'll do a little surfing before I get back to trying to recreate my last post.
I keep trying to copy this, it highlights, then when you go to select copy, it disapears. I'll keep tryingthough. this is a crapy posting site though.
Damn right it worked that time. Now to recreate my first post.
No, freeloaders are those who will not pay for Union representation but still like the protection the Union affords them.
Union members pay their dues and yes most do very little than that. But, at least they pay for what they're getting.
Yor post:
"Your union is full of freeloaders who pay dues and don't do a damn thing. Lazy good for nothing wannabees that wait for other people to do the mental work of negotiating for their own well being."
There are lazy, good for nothing wannabees in evey group. Be it Union menbers, freeloaders, ousties or salaried. Hell the salaried ranks are full of them too. They usually become mangers.
I had a conversation once with a manager in 801. That was a few years back. Anyway this manager who will remain annyomous. HK, had not been a good engineer, at least according to the engineers in the area and due to diversity, got promoted into management. Well HK told me that it was to hard to fire or get rid of an incompetent hourly employee because of the Union. I told HK that it was the Unions job to represent all hourly members, Union or not. It is Federally mandated that we do so. So we do, who says that we have to do it effectivly for everyone though? A damn good reason to be a member. I, though have always done my best, just can't help it even if I don't want to. I even got a thankless free loader, who had crossed the picket line, 4 hours of doubletime, and that was within a few weeks after we came back in. Did that asshole ever thank me? NO, not even an acknowledment for the couple hundred dollars I got for him.
Anyway, I told HK that it is his lazy assed supervisors who fail to do their jobs. I told him they need to document all infractions every time. and eventually the Union will not be able to save their jobs. But, the supervisors (they call them VSM's now) are lazy, that's why they stay at the bottom of the salaried ranks. They usually leave them at some mindless task, like old fat assed scooter, still wearing his Not 933 button. That lazy fat assed piece of shit would have long been gone if not for Unions. I personally saved his ass a few times prior to the strike. I didn't like it but I did my job. Why the hell the company didn't take advantage and fire his good for nothing lazy ass during the strike I'll never know. While I'm on my bitch here, why they didn't fire Patty, or that scrotum faced Dave Gooderham I'll never know either. Okay, I got a little personal there. But, I'll leave it and I don't care if they read this, because they are those lazy assed fxxking freeloading pieces of shit. You know it, I know it and so does everybody else. Jezz they make me sick. Okay, alright, I got a little out of line here. I really don't want to use this forum to put others down, butI can think of no other three more deserving than those. Hey, why does Patty get to park in the handicap parking spot, but yet can walk outside every 30 minutes to have a smoke? Alright, time to move on. Just had to get that out.
I'll post this now and do another to finish the first post. Don't want to lose it again.
John
Wait for it
No, freeloaders are those who will not pay for Union representation but still like the protection the Union affords them.
Union members pay their dues and yes most do very little than that. But, at least they pay for what they're getting.
Yor post:
"Your union is full of freeloaders who pay dues and don't do a damn thing. Lazy good for nothing wannabees that wait for other people to do the mental work of negotiating for their own well being."
There are lazy, good for nothing wannabees in evey group. Be it Union menbers, freeloaders, ousties or salaried. Hell the salaried ranks are full of them too. They usually become mangers.
I had a conversation once with a manager in 801. That was a few years back. Anyway this manager who will remain annyomous. HK, had not been a good engineer, at least according to the engineers in the area and due to diversity, got promoted into management. Well HK told me that it was to hard to fire or get rid of an incompetent hourly employee because of the Union. I told HK that it was the Unions job to represent all hourly members, Union or not. It is Federally mandated that we do so. So we do, who says that we have to do it effectivly for everyone though? A damn good reason to be a member. I, though have always done my best, just can't help it even if I don't want to. I even got a thankless free loader, who had crossed the picket line, 4 hours of doubletime, and that was within a few weeks after we came back in. Did that asshole ever thank me? NO, not even an acknowledment for the couple hundred dollars I got for him.
Anyway, I told HK that it is his lazy assed supervisors who fail to do their jobs. I told him they need to document all infractions every time. and eventually the Union will not be able to save their jobs. But, the supervisors (they call them VSM's now) are lazy, that's why they stay at the bottom of the salaried ranks. They usually leave them at some mindless task, like old fat assed scooter, still wearing his Not 933 button. That lazy fat assed piece of shit would have long been gone if not for Unions. I personally saved his ass a few times prior to the strike. I didn't like it but I did my job. Why the hell the company didn't take advantage and fire his good for nothing lazy ass during the strike I'll never know. While I'm on my bitch here, why they didn't fire Patty, or that scrotum faced Dave Gooderham I'll never know either. Okay, I got a little personal there. But, I'll leave it and I don't care if they read this, because they are those lazy assed fxxking freeloading pieces of shit. You know it, I know it and so does everybody else. Jezz they make me sick. Okay, alright, I got a little out of line here. I really don't want to use this forum to put others down, butI can think of no other three more deserving than those. Hey, why does Patty get to park in the handicap parking spot, but yet can walk outside every 30 minutes to have a smoke? Alright, time to move on. Just had to get that out.
I'll post this now and do another to finish the first post. Don't want to lose it again.
John
Hey, second time is a ?????
Part two.
Yor're right. I don't think we've ever had 100%, close enough, I know it has been in the 90% though. Did the comapny listen to our demands? No, I don't think so. HD listened to their Union who went out with 100%, so I believe Raytheon would have to listen too. Also, the producton salaried would back us up. Engineering salaried, who work for Bob Lepore would not help us. They don't get what we do on the production floor. They think they are the ones who make the money for the company. Well yes they are a part of it. They do the intital design work, shove that onto production and we have to fix all their crap that doesn't work. And we do, without their help, thank you very much.
I do care about the technical hourly, Hell I'm one myself. Would I like another $6 an hour, hell yes. Do I think it is realistic that we'd get that? No.
Trying to move a couple of the occupations into another Union would work about as much as a snow ball in hell. Here's my reasons why it would not work.
First you'd have to decertify the IAM. You tried that already and it didn't work. Too many freeloaders and Union members to make it happen. If you could overcome that, then you'd have to wait one full year to try and oranize another Union again. That would take forever and the comapny would probably fire you for your effots. Hey, they'll keep ol lazy fat assed over you. So, it just would not happen. Why not stick with what you have and work to make it better for you.
Oh, before I forget. Yes, we have turned people down from being members. I saw it happen in the
80's and I saw it happen again after the strike. I personally spoke up to deny a couple of folks from being allowed to come back into the Union. There were two former stewards who had crossed the picket line. Any steward who would do that should never be allowed back into the fold again. They abonded their trust. But were they every really Union members? I think not. they were selfserving.
Well, it is time to get off this computer, take a shower and go to work for some of that good ol Double time, Premium pay that we have the Union to thank for.
Keep posting though. You make some valid points, but you're still so misguided. You still do not see the bigger picture. Perhaps in time you'll be man, or women enough to admit it. Then and only then will we achieve what you seek.
John, still not hiding in the bushes.
"....and I saw it happen again after the strike. I personally spoke up to deny a couple of folks from being allowed to come back into the Union. There were two former stewards who had crossed the picket line. Any steward who would do that should never be allowed back into the fold again."
Therefore....
"I don't think we've ever had 100%, close enough, I know it has been in the 90% though."
The number I recall (back in '02 or '03) when this union had the most support ever was in the mid-80% range. Hell, the local was proud of that fact, it was posted and printed all over the place!
"Did the comapny listen to our demands? No, I don't think so. HD listened to their Union who went out with 100%, so I believe Raytheon would have to listen too."
So, because you and others will never agree to have EVERY eligible member of the bargaining unit in this local, you'll still cry and complain that you'll never have 100% membership in this local. That refutes the last statement completely.
Look, don't hang your hat on legislatively trying to solve the problem. Right-to-work is not the cause of your problem; not having a legitimate need for your service - that is the problem. See Basha's vs. UFCW as an example.
You're killing your own 'solidarity' with conditions. You and others claim to want 100% membership, yet it has to be the the 'right' members.
That's why the Ousties and others who won't believe in 'the cause' will continue to eat away at the fabric of this faded cloak of security for as long as it takes. With issues such as this pay disparity issues and plenty of others, it will never happen.
It's taking a few seconds for each post to show up; especially if it's large, so the file size is getting pretty big, so it'll show up eventually; I'm having the same issue as well.
You're almost correct. 80% is about the best on average. But, there are always a few more who will join in the month or so before contract ratification and they have pushed it to over 90% by that time. Of couse, they usually drop out again a couple of months later after the dust has settled. They want to be able to vote and have the Strike pay, just in case we do go out. I don't like it, I think if you're going to be a member, then be a real member and have dues deduction. It is more of a commitment that way. But, at least they are intending to stay out if we strike and that's a good thing.
Maybe there is some controversy here. For my part, I will never vote in a traiter again. But, I'm just one person and not all Union members feel the way I do. A couple of months back a traitor reapplied in 847. That annomoyus SOB, got into trouble again at work and the first place he came to was the Union that he had abandond and had trash talked for the last couple of years. Well when his name came up for nomination I stood up and protested. Made a great case about not allowing him back in. Guess what? it was over 30 something to my one. WK is now a member again. See, life is not fair. I actually felt a little betrayed.
We'll keep trying to get rid of that stupid right to work for lower wages law. I do agree with you that it might not do a lot of good, but it would help with expenses. I understand that an oustie shouldn't have to pay for something that they don't believe in, but there are more freeloaders out there than ousties and whether you believe it or not, ousties still benifit from the Unions work too. So, all should have to pay equally. Like I said before, life isn't fair.
I could't believe Bashas coming on TV and telling all that it was the Unions fault that they had to close stores. Geez, did you really believe that crap? It was their greed, they, like Fry's and Safeway, don't pay their workers shit, cut their hours so they can reduce their benifits. Why we keep hounding on Walmart, I don't know. Me, I shop where I want to. Walmart, Safeway, Frys and yes I did like Bashas too. But maybe I'll skip them for awhile. Anyway they closed their store by me. Bashas just had spread themselves to thin and when the economy dropped like a rock they were over extended, that's all. Just plain economics. Not the Union, what a bunch of crap Eddie.
I hope you ousties do keep eating away, at least about the pay disparity, hell I'd like to make some more $ too. So let's combine our efforts, you can still be anti-union. Enemys can colaborate and work together aginst the larger common enemy we have. That enemy likes to see us fighting amoungst ourselves, then they can do what they want. When they relize that we are united, they will listen.
It makes sense that a larger file will take a little longer. I, like the majority of humans, expect things right NOW.
John
So, while I'm waiting for my last rant to post. I didn't make a copy of it, but it did disapear, I must have a little faith that it will eventually post.
Where are the rest of you? I want discourse! I've listen to all the crap about Unions on the floor for years from you. Now is the time to get it out. Is it that you've read and perhaps now understand some of those misconceptions you've had about Unions? Probably not. Maybe apathy is setting in and you're all getting a little tired of this. I don't know. If you still have anything left, put it out here. I'm ready. There is very little that you can say that I can't explain the truth about. Hey, like I've said, I'm only one person, I don't represent the whole Union, but I've been around now for quite awhile and do have some knowledge of how things work around this plant.
John, out of the bushes and strutting. Of course, when you start strutting, someone will try and knock you down.
Bill on Dec 4th-
That is a good observation of jimbo
he is a survivor, he took the primary steward position in Microcircuit program bldg 809
back in the late 80's to keep from
getting laid-off with all the other testers, it worked and now he is one step away from the international-regional. I believe he will get help from bobby m. and take the giant leap to superstardom, that's where the six digit pay is at. being a tester was never part of his agenda, in fact he is probably enjoying watching the testers and other techies squirm as lower skill occupations come right up to our pay level. hey I guess the taylor "grade 11" kid isn't ready to take on the full fledged dbr job, but it sure beats tester pay though.
So if you were trying to put Unions down here with that, you lost big time. You just proved my case for me. Unions win if they stick together and are 100%.
The only problem is the 1000 or so members that sacrificed and now will have to go somewhere else. the need of many, out weigh the needs of the few. that is true blind loyalty similar to the japanese military when it was in power or the jihadists.
there are 5 groups not 4:
1. unionist member
2. member that just pays the dues to keep the unionists off their back.
3. member that crosses the picket line and quits membership.
4. free-minded (loader) person that is waiting to see if there will be a beneficial change.
5. ouster like number 4, but is so fed up they want to get into some action.
there are sub groups to all of those, but these seem to be the majors.
anonymous dec 5 4:05 am
that is a good practical solution, if they, 933, would agree to let go.
but they are desperate for every possible member, no matter what. its like a bad marriage with a overbearing spouse. let my people go!
from what i've heard the haha character died from laughing too hard.
I want a divorce so I can find a more responsible spouse, that will take care of my needs. "Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives."
Bill,
First I want to say, thanks for using your name. That is how we are going to win this thing. Sure I believe Jimbo probably did take the stewards position to protect his ass from layoff. But, I do think he cares about the techies too. First priority is yourself, you cant't help others if you're not around and Jimbo does have some good talent.
Jimbo is headed for bigger things than DBR, sure this is a stepping stone for him, but is there anything wrong with wanting to progress in life? No, not a thing as long as you take care of those you've been cahrged with and I do believe he is doing that right now. More power to him, and if he does go farther it will be to our benifit. Most people always remember where their roots come from and I think Jimbo will remember this too.
Anyway, I really do appreaciate ypur post Bill.
John
Your Post:
Anonymous said...
So if you were trying to put Unions down here with that, you lost big time. You just proved my case for me. Unions win if they stick together and are 100%.
The only problem is the 1000 or so members that sacrificed and now will have to go somewhere else. the need of many, out weigh the needs of the few. that is true blind loyalty similar to the japanese military when it was in power or the jihadists.
Dec 7, 2009 10:07:00 AM
Where the FUKX do I begin here? What the hell are you trying to say here. It makes very little sense. The 1000 or so are still here, where have we gone? where will we have to go to? Blind loyalty? Not a chance, obviously you've never been to a Union meeting. Hey assXXXX I'm a former MARINE, Don't ever compare me to a FUCKXX Jihadist, I will Kick your ass, if you are ever man enough to say that to my face.
To everyone else, I appoligize. I've said before that I do not want to use this blog to trash each other. But I will not stand for someone else to post comparing the Union to a Terrorists. They are not Jihadist, they are FucXXXX terrorist and we should deal with them like the scum they are. For this SOB to try and compare me and my Union to that just pisses me off. I still want to meet your sorry ass face to face. You know who I am, come on out woosie.
Okay I've degressed long enough, you now know my touchy point. I'm damn proud of my service and anyone else who has ever put on a unifor in serivice ouf our country.
John,
FUCXXXX of you slime bag piece of SHIt scum. I'm waiting.
Your Post:
Anonymous said...
there are 5 groups not 4:
1. unionist member
2. member that just pays the dues to keep the unionists off their back.
3. member that crosses the picket line and quits membership.
4. free-minded (loader) person that is waiting to see if there will be a beneficial change.
5. ouster like number 4, but is so fed up they want to get into some action.
there are sub groups to all of those, but these seem to be the majors.
Dec 7, 2009 10:31:00 AM
No, I don't agree. You are close though.
1. Unionist Member.
2.Members that pay dues, because they belive in what the Union is all about. They just don't want to spend the time it takes to be active.
3. Free loaders, like I said before they like the Unions protection, but just don't want to pay their fair share. I deal with these people all the time. After you have helped them, and you ask if they will join, then they say " I just dont't want to belong to a union because I don't undersand why we need them." That is after you just saved thier ass, or got them the pay, because they were over passed on OT. They are really great about using the contract when it suits them.
4. Ousties, I've said before, at least they truely believe in their misguided ideals. They don't trash the Union and then hide behind the contract. I'll take a little of that back, they will use the contract when it suits their purpose.
Thanks for your post. You did at least try to make an intelligent post. Unlike that sorry SOB a couple of posts ago. Plese keep it up.
John
Damn, I'm loving this.
Your Post:
Anonymous said...
anonymous dec 5 4:05 am
that is a good practical solution, if they, 933, would agree to let go.
but they are desperate for every possible member, no matter what. its like a bad marriage with a overbearing spouse. let my people go!
Dec 7, 2009 10:47:00 AM
If we 933 would let got, not a FucXXXX chance. Why would we? We have fought for many years to provide for workers rights. What would have happend if our founding fathers had agreed to let go against the British? No we will not go away, we will never stop fighting for your rights. You just don't get it. That is what we are all about. We stand up. You wimper and whine and take what the man (British) will give you. thank God you were not around during the revolution. We'd all be speaking British (funny I know), German, or maybe Japanese by now.
John, Don't go quitely into the sunlight.
Your Post:
Anonymous said...
I want a divorce so I can find a more responsible spouse, that will take care of my needs. "Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives."
Dec 7, 2009 2:50:00 PM
I'm not even sure this belongs on this blog. Try Craigs List. Lots of good stuff out there for you.
Anyway, I've enjoyed your posts tonight. I've been complaining that I wasn't getting enough feed back. Tonight you didn't let me down. Now, what am I going to do at 1:30 in the morning. Give me some more feedback tonight. I will need something to do in the wee hours of the morning.
I'm still pissed at that earlier post from that SOB, if you know him, tell him to bring it on.
John
SEMPER-FI
Urggghh, Still feeling the burn from that earlier posting SOB.
Done for the night.
2007 IAM Archives: 2007 York PA Harley Davidson 3 year contract.
Under the new contract, Harley will continue to pay full healthcare premiums for employees and new hires will progress to the same top pay as current employees. Wages will rise 12 percent over the life of the accord to a maximum hourly rate of $27.89.
“There is a time for sharing sacrifices and a time for sharing success,” said IAM International President Tom Buffenbarger. “And after eighteen straight quarters of record profits and sales at Harley, these workers know what time it is.”
Isn't this the same plant that is laying off over 1000 workers and just accepted a seven year 0% pay raise? Somehow I could have predicted this. Yea, Iknow the economy tanked. but the demands set by that old contract made it impossible. Is this what we will get if we go 100%?
John you seem to be knowledgeable in the labor matters at Raytheon. Please answer a few questions without side stepping the issue. A few years back we had checkout tech positions. Just what happened to them? Was the job position dissolved? Did they go salary? If they went salary was it by request off the company or the checkout techs. A forthright and honest answer is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
A couple of intelligent posts here for me to talk about in these wee hours. Windy as hell out there right now. Where's the rain? Coming I suppose.
Your post:
"2007 IAM Archives: 2007 York PA Harley Davidson 3 year contract"
Yes, it dose seem to be a bit of a quandry. Those layoffs aren't the byproduct of their contract, just the sudden downturn in the economy. HD did have record profits. Every, swinging dick out there wanted a Hog. Sort of a status symbol to all those Yuppie types. Are Yuppies still around? Yes, they are and they're older now and have done good, sent the kids off to college and now they want their toys. Get a tatto and buy a Harley, like they wanted to do when they were 20.
So, now the economy has tanked, getting a Harley is a little lower on the list. They're holding back. Buying up those cheap houses for investment income instead. Smart move. Take advantage of the depressed real estate market while you can. Make some money and when the market rebounds sell off those houses and you can buy a fleet of HDs if you want. Hell, probably form your own personal MC. Get your own patch. Be careful about that lower rocker though and the little MC patch. 1% won't care for you sorry Yuppie ass much. Yea, I know the biker world too, been rideing HD since I was in my 20"s. I've hung with Angels, it was exciting, but you had damn well be on your toes, those guys are serious.
Anyway I've degressed again. Went into my own little fantasy about being a true hardcore 1% biker. I truely could have embraced that life style if it was't for the drugs and such. So, I guess I'll never get to be a 1% biker. I'm content with being in the 99% crowd.
I did it again, I digressed.
If you set low demands and the company does good, will they turn around and give you more? Not likely. Louise told us, times are rough right now, please understand that when things get better we will share with you. Not, this comapny has had record profits for several years now and during that time all they have done is cut our wages and benifits. Also notice how their "HD" wages are very similiar to ours? That's good Unionisum. Too bad about our health benifits taking such a hit. At least our negotiating committee got us some caps on them so you won't go broke if you get hospitalized. I don't believe that the salaried have those caps.
So, we always need to negotiate for the best possible contract that we can get, because the company won't share in the good times. There will be bad times ahead. Things won't always look as rosey for the company as they do now. We too, will have to make consessions when the bad times come, just like HD IAM did. So, when that time comes you step back a little, still work for the best contract you can get, because when they do recover, and they will, they will still not share those good times with you. Corporate greed, plain and simple. So you have to stay strong.
We need them to be profitable and keep us employeed. They need us to build their missles so Bill Swanson, Taylor Lawrence and all the others can keep making big $.
Ever wonder who will own your house as an investment if you lose it due to foreclosure if you ever get really sick, have huge medical bills , can't work, then they kick you off long term diability? Yea, Bill S & Taylor. Hell they're so big, it'll just be bundled into some sort of investment thing and they won't even know it's your house. You're insignigant to them. Teamwork, Integrity, Trust, all that bullcrap that they constantly Post. It is only teamwork when it suits their sorry asses.
John
Your Post:
"Anonymous said...
John you seem to be knowledgeable in the labor matters at Raytheon. Please answer a few questions without side stepping the issue. A few years back we had checkout tech positions. Just what happened to them? Was the job position dissolved? Did they go salary? If they went salary was it by request off the company or the checkout techs. A forthright and honest answer is greatly appreciated."
Dec 7, 2009 11:02:00 PM
I like this, intelligent, short and simple. I'll probably ramble on again though, so please bear with me.
I think you know by now that I won't side step. I've tried it in the past and somehow it bites you in the ass. You won't get away with side stepping any issue. It's best to just go head first and hope for the best.
Checkout techs, the only checkout techs I ever remember were from Test Equipment. They used to called TESD, or something like that. Now the department is TSSC. They still have checkout techs as far as I know. If that has changed, I really don't know. I'm not in their world. I support production. If you have anymore info please pass it on to me and I promise I will investigate it and get back to you with what I find out.
I really think they are still hourly checkout techs. Perhaps their occupation has been absorbed into one general group. They did combine Testers and ETT at the last contract and a checkout tech would have been combined into ETT long before that. They certainly did not make them salaried though.
Just recently the Ousties, as a last ditch effort tried to get the cal service tech occupation converted to salaried. The NLRB, said no way. You can't move an occupation that has been represented by the IAM for years into a salaried position. And that is from an NLRB, that was appointed by the republicans, Bushie party. Just wait until we get an NLRB and labor secertary appointed by a more labor friendly Obama administration.
Hey, I'm not an Obamnist. I did not vote for the man. But, labor will profit from him being elected. Bush, damn near gutted all that labor protection. His boss, Dick Chaney, whos cronnies are the Bill Swansons of the world , tried to and damn near dismantled all that labor had done to make your life as good as it is right now. Our time has come again and it is time to install legislation that will ensure that we will survive. The corporations will survive and still be profitable, they just might have to bring us along too.
John
A couple of great, well thought out posts here tonight. Those posts allowed me to provide what I belive to be great responses. I truely enjoy answering to posts like those. It keeps my mind lubricated.
Much better posts than that sorry SOB with his Jihadist remarks. I still dare him to confront me. Hey, those of you who know me, know I'm a little guy (not short, just coiled). But, even if this SOB is 7 foot 300 lbs, I'll still kick his ass one way or another. If I can't accomplish that task, I have brothers and sisters who would finsh the job for me. Unionists make me proud. Just like my fellow Marine brothers and siters too. We will never leave another behind. We will pick up their broken body and continue the fight.
Semper-Fi, John
Please explain to me why your local willfully disregards the following in your union constitution:
Members shall discourage the working of overtime, in order to further the opportunities for full employment, a living wage, and a 40-hour workweek.
john out of the bush you seem to be a very volatile character. you contradict that you want interaction and then you're going to kick everyones #ss
when it doesn't suit you. if you are related to george i can understand why you have this hostility, he wanted to take on the world "you are either with us or your against us...bring'em on"! was george's anthem. what i think you need is more sleep, you're on this blog early in the a.m. all the time. everyone has an opinion
it doesn't mean you have to agree or react to it, just my opinion.
John the union jihadist, do you chant Allah Akbar everytime you get a new recruit for your freeloader Jihad? ROTFLMAO!!!!
Just me loving the bush!
Your post:
Anonymous said...
Please explain to me why your local willfully disregards the following in your union constitution:
Members shall discourage the working of overtime, in order to further the opportunities for full employment, a living wage, and a 40-hour workweek.
Dec 8, 2009 5:57:00 AM
It's vewry simple. The Union feels that 40 hours is enough. they fought hard to get us to the 40 hour work week. That gives you the opportunity to have weekends and evenings off to spend with your family (okay there is 2nd & 3rd shift, but you get what I mean). The company saves money by not having to pay the overhead costs for new employees (health care benifits and such) so the company would rather you work overtime instead of having to hire another employee. It's an unrealistic goal. Most employees, like the extra $ that OT gives them. I do too. Although I refused OT the last couple of years.
It is unfortunate that a lot of employees use OT to pay for their inflated life style. You do not need to drive a $50,000 SUV. Nice to be able, but not if you need OT to make those payments. Save your money instead.
John
I've got to remember to save these longer posts to Word first. I posted a response to this earlier and it just disapeared. So, I''l repost again.
Your post:
"Anonymous said...
john out of the bush you seem to be a very volatile character. you contradict that you want interaction and then you're going to kick everyones #ss
when it doesn't suit you. if you are related to george i can understand why you have this hostility, he wanted to take on the world "you are either with us or your against us...bring'em on"! was george's anthem. what i think you need is more sleep, you're on this blog early in the a.m. all the time. everyone has an opinion
it doesn't mean you have to agree or react to it, just my opinion.
Dec 8, 2009 9:11:00 AM"
No, I'm not normally volitile. Mostly a mello person. But, every once in awhile someone will say or do something that just pisses syou off. That Jihadist SOB did that. I think he is here again tonight and if I have the time I'll get to his latest Jihadest post. If not tonight, wo what. He is an insignifact piecoe of crap and if I want another hour of sleep, I'll get that instead of respondig to his latest little piece of crap dribble.
I never said I wanted to kick everones ass, just that Jihadist SOB's ass.
I don't have a clue who George is. Hey, some folks just want to fight. They don't know how to express themselfs any other way. Perhaps George is that type. I'm not.
Yes, I do need more sleep. I do think real clearly though at this time of the morning. I'm still wound up from the contract ratification. I think I'll get back to my normal sleep patterns afterthe holidays. A couple ofweeks off and I'll probably be sleeping like a baby again. Until then, you get to have me up and awake and giving out all my thoughts about the Union and such. Sometimes you probably get a little more babble than you want.
Yes, we all have an opinion, we're entilted to it. That's good. That Jihadist SOB didn't render an opinion. He made a statment, an accusation. Clearly I didn't care much for his words.
Good post, thank you.
John
I was smarter this time. I did save it and it took me 3 times before it would post.
John
What can I say? Some folks just don't have the brain poewr for an intelligent post.
Her's dickwad jihadist latest remark:
"Anonymous said...
John the union jihadist, do you chant Allah Akbar everytime you get a new recruit for your freeloader Jihad? ROTFLMAO!!!!
Just me loving the bush!
Dec 8, 2009 10:18:00 PM"
This assho### is a complete idiot. I'm not even pissed off at his remarks anymore, because he's obviously an imbesille. Gotta feel sorry for people like that.
Well I think I'll take a nap for now, get some more of that sleep.
John, yea, I'm still out and not hiding in the bushes.
جان شما یک مرد هستید یک اØمق دست نشانده است Ú©Ù‡ پیرو با دهان بزرگ Ú©Ù‡ Ù…ÛŒ تواند باند خود را به
مبارزه با او در صورتی می توانید کار را انجام دهد نیست
Now THAT was great!!
I find it interesting that the unions side of this site seems to emphasize that it is a "democracy" when faced with the fact that it doesn't respect it's higher educated workforce. This is a company with no ties to "democracy" rather a large tie to capitalism (thank God!) This is one of the things that is wrong with this union. It believes in majority rule even though it is shooting itself in the foot. Until it starts valuing and paying it's educated workforce, any sort of strike is going to fail because it has earned no loyalty from those who really make things work. I crossed because I felt no compassion towards an organization that has only stood in my way over the years. I was told by a VSM (and also through my own observations) that without the "technical" workers crossing, the company would have been hard pressed to make things work. So, what do any of you unionists have to say about that? Keep on kicking your dog and you still expect his loyalty? You certainly don't get it from me. Also, I am not afraid of the company. Why are you? There is the "smoke break" example cited above however, in order for a company to fire somebody, there has to be just cause or the company is in deep trouble. If this was a wrongful firing (as I highly doubt it was) those employee's would probably own the company by now. So, I respectfully would have to call those stories BS. Now, I am not saying John is full of it I am merely saying he is likely misinformed about the entire situation surrounding the firing. I am always hearing that the company (sans union) would fire all of it's high payed workers and hire illegals at 3.50 an hour or some such nonsense. That just makes no sense for multiple reasons already stated in other postings on this blog. However, when you say this to an uneducated person, you will probably be able to scare them into joining your group. No disrespect John, since you seem very sincere in your postings but I don't see how anyone with intelligence would join or stay in this union.
Anonymous since I value my car and can't afford to replace the tires on a weekly basis :)
Democracy is a great thing, our Union runs just like our country does through elected representation. That leadership has made corrections for the higher educated technical workforce before.
Back in the old CEP days with CEP families the Assembly family had three leverls. The first (bottom) level had the assembly type jobs and the testers too. Then second level had Prototype, ETT and cal service tech. The top level had both rambo positions. A few contracts back the Union worked with the company during negotiations to bring testers to that second level. That allowed them to make more money because they could also take the test for ETT and make more. Alot of the testers went up by several dollars an hour due to that(I believe some mde $5/Hr more). The next contract the Union pushed for GWI's and also for another extra $1 an hour for cal service techs. I remember being in the Chiefs Stewards office a few years back and I dissed John Nuechterline. You know the old Cal Service Tech manager prior to John Crosby. The Chief Steward jumped down my throat and said if it had not been for John Nuechterline that we Cal techs would have never gotten that $1/hr extra pay raise. Together they had tried for even more, but HR in it's infanite wisdon felt that that was enough of a correction for our job classification, even though BOTH the Union and John NUechterline felt it should be more. So, this Union has gone to bat for the techies in the past and does continue to do so. We will again, We are much more effective when we have the support of those we are trying to help. Your crossing the picket line did not help us get another correction. Instead you played into the companys hand to help them get away with not giving us a better contract. We are the faithful old dog that you are kicking. You are obviously intelligent, but sooo misguided. You can't see past your hatred for us. You then try to rationalize your hatred by saying that we the Union who has worked for your betterment is only intrested in promoting the welfare of assemblers. Just isn't so. Even though you have kicked us, we will still be loyal and try to make the needed corrections. It makes it harder to make those needed corrections when we have to waste our efforts on dealing with you ousties trying to decertify the Union or getting testers and others to drop out of the Union. You're biting off your nose to spite your own face. Get on the bandwagon and work with us, it WILL be to your betterment. Better post this part before I hit 4096.
John
Part of your Post:
I was told by a VSM (and also through my own observations) that without the "technical" workers crossing, the company would have been hard pressed to make things work. So, what do any of you unionists have to say about that?
Once again you listen to the VSMs like their word is gospel. Sure I have no doubt that the company fared better with the techies crossing, why wouldn't they. That VSM is playing you, they know who you are and what you represent. They are feeding the fire. They are using you. They are a company agent and they will do anything that will help the company keep our wages and benefits low. They will be rewarded with higher pay and bonuses for doing so. Everytime you take action on their words you help them succed to your own detriment.
I only heard about the "smoke break" incident at that time. There could have been other reasons too. I never did get all the details and I don't know what the end result was. Maybe they got their jobs back, who knows now?
Just cause, there are alot of ways to terminate. Sure, unless they violated a company policy it would have been hard to fire them, but there are alot of ways to use just cause. Time card fraud is one of them. You were charging the customer by putting a charge number on you time card that said you were working on this project at that time when you were really outside smoking and screwing off. Very easy to do that and without Union representation you have little other legal recourse. Having the Union represent you is like having your own personal lawyer. You never want to go to court without one, except for small claims, especially if it could cost you your job.
I'm not sure I ever said that the company would fire it's techies and replace them with $3.50 an hour workers. They would however try to do that if they thought they could get a skilled technical workforce for lower wages. They would move any work they could to Mexico, China, Vietnam, etc. if they could get away with it. GD did move The Tomahawk MCM to a maquilidora in Mexico and got away with it for a few years until a government watch dog called them on it and made them return that work back to the US. They currently are trying to move what work they can to NAPI, remeber the good old folks from NAPI that we currently have them to thank for getting TOW shutdown. The company has now thrown even more resourses at NAPI to try and make that sucessful, why? Because NAPI is a third world country. Low wages, no benefits. A lot of those NAPI folks leave Raytheon for Walmart, because Walmart there in Farmington NM pays better, has better benifits and has stuff that they can steal and take home for their use. Not much use for am AMRAMM wiring harness or a TOW bobbin, but I sure could use that microwave, now if I can just figure out how to stuff it in my lunch box.
We are both obviously reasonably intelligent. If either of us were really intelligent, we'd have figured out a way to make a better living than working for the man. Common sense is also needed to suceed.
Well, it's time for you ousties to stop kicking the old faithful dog, get back to your homework. Lets work together for our mutual benifit.
Let's lock n load and get ready to rock n roll for the next contract. we have 3 years to get prepared and maybe we can make some needed corrections that you have been talking about.
I can't wait for the pancake breakfast tomorrow. I get very hungry by the time I get to eat.
John, still not hiding in the bushes.
Now for your last remark.
I've had a few flat tires myself, went through a rash of them at one time. Nearly every week there for awhile. Several of you Union members had them too, I believe ousties , freeloaders and even the salaried had them too. One of our members had all four tires flattend one day and had her door handles filled with chewing gum, so that she got it all over her hands and vehicle too. The company said they never could catch the person or persons doing that. They have over 100 cameras on this plant site, they have a control room with all kinds of monitors and the security personel to staff it. You can't walk anywhere on this plantsite and pick you nose with out them watching you. I don't know why they let that happen. Perhaps they caught the person and quietly removed them from our area. I know for sure if it had been a Union, or any other hourly employee, that they would have made example of them and publicly fired them. So, there was someone else that they felt they needed to protect their identity to keep from losing face. The company hid something here.
John, driving around on new tires. At least I have free flat repair. But it's a bitch putting on the spare when it's 110 outside after a long day. But, hey we do what we have to to survive.
Well it's to late now to catch another hour of sleep.
I hope you ousties, freeloaders and even Union members ahve bee reading these posts. I could care less about the traitors, they can go to hell for all I care.
I have posted some great responses here. I can't think of a single misguided conception that you ousties have stated here that I have not answered with a correct, factual answer. If you can post anything new, please do so.
John
When a union member or leadership says the company is against the hourly worker and is no better than a dog and then that same union member/leader plays into all the company gimmicks like respect, gumball machine rewards, teaming, feeding frenzies(potlucks)all hands meetings, safety, security events, give us your ideas, is that not playing into the company hands? Or is that an allowable practice as long as they are get a gift card or filling their belly(some of those bellies are pretty large)or getting a pat on their head. It just seems they are following the company agenda.
Any thoughts?
"John you are a man is a fool, puppet follower with large mouth that can bond to Fight with him if you can do is to"
جان شما یک مرد هستید یک اØمق دست نشانده است Ú©Ù‡ پیرو با دهان بزرگ Ú©Ù‡ Ù…ÛŒ تواند باند خود را به
مبارزه با او در صورتی می توانید کار را انجام دهد نیست
This was translated using an on line translator site that doug pointed out to me. It took a while to figure out what languge it is (Farsi).
I wonder if that really means "John, you as a man are a big mouth fool that bonds to other men so you can fight."
Well, Mr Iranian, you may have just opened a can of whoopass. I'm as anti-union as they come, but if you come in here talking smack to Americans in the language of a country that wants to bury the USA, I will stand by John and you can imagine what we will do next! Yup! Open an even bigger can of whoopass!
You let us fight our own battles.
If you are from a foriegn country, Get LOST! If you are from here, speak in a language we can all understand (English). I will delete any further messages you bring in Farsi. Stay the hell out of our internal affairs.
“That leadership has made corrections for the higher educated technical workforce before.”
--When? In my 20+ years here as a tester I have never seen any such correction.
“Once again you listen to the VSMs like their word is gospel. Sure I have no doubt that the company fared better with the techies crossing, why wouldn't they. That VSM is playing you, they know who you are and what you represent. They are feeding the fire. They are using you. They are a company agent and they will do anything that will help the company keep our wages and benefits low. They will be rewarded with higher pay and bonuses for doing so. Everytime you take action on their words you help them succed to your own detriment.”
--No, I also went by my own observations. When I crossed, they were set to roll product out. Engineers were all trained up to do the assemblers work. I might add that in my particular area, they did extremely well on both new builds and rework. Our lines were running within the first week of the strike. The one thing that they could not have covered in my opinion was the nuances of test. I can look at the data and tell if something is failing due to an equipment problem, a unit issue, or if a cable is unplugged. I then can fix/trouble shoot the problem and go on to the next issue. The engineers I work with are mostly theoretical/management types and they have problems with real world situations. I can and do run circles around them when they are on the floor.
On the other hand, here is more of your fear mongering. Basically, what you are saying is that the company is evil and out to get me. I can’t believe that since I have never seen it since I hired on at Hughes. You union people seem to live in fear of the evil company and you keep the rumor circulating that without your protection, we will all be lost. I am sorry but I really don’t see things that way. The company is the company period. It has no interest other than making money. I can’t consider this evil as I am a capitalist myself. Also, if you think about it, the company has spent a lot of money training me up and getting me a clearance over the last 20 years. Do you really think they would want to go through all that cost again on a new hire so they could shave a few bucks off? In the long run they would lose far more money than they would gain in the short run.
Ok, now let’s talk about money. Why does the union oppose merit raises? Why do I make the same amount as a new hire fresh off the street or as the button pusher who can barely find the time to stop surfing the internet long enough to start up a test? Because the union says so. This is one thing that I can not for the life of me understand. Now some might ask, why do you care what the others make? I care simply because for every cent more an hour they make, it is a cent less an hour that I make or that someone even better than I am is making. However, according to the union I am the same as the next guy and the next guy and so on and so forth. I completely reject this socialistic/communistic attitude.
One other thing. Why does the union hold to this us versus them attitude when talking about our salaried co-workers? You (John) said somewhere up above that you passed by Louise on plant and she looked down her nose at you. I also had the opportunity to meet Louise and found her to be a warm and welcoming nice person. I did not detect any of the caste feeling that you described. I wonder if your description of her is at all based on the hourly versus salary attitude that I have noticed in the union people that I work with emanating from you. Now, I don’t believe that we have ever met so I can’t pass judgment on you but I find it interesting that we would have such different impressions of the same person.
Anyway, I am off to get some sleep now, 4:30 am comes too soon. I will check back later.
Anonymous
Good Morning Bloggo land!!
Yea, I have a lot of thoughts about those Gumball party's. I've never been to one myself. The company promotes that crap and most folks suck it up. Personally I think we should boycott them all, everyone of us should. For a while I skipped the "all hands". I started going back, because I kept getting to many questions that I couldn't answer about them. Just the last one whith Harry Schulte, He commented on how great the latest survey result was. I was incessed. I was going to ask him about it in front of all present. My pager went off and I had to leave for a few minutes. By the time that I got back the all hands was over. Harry was still there though, so I stood in line and then got to ask him, why did he bring up the survery results when half of those (hourly) in attendance weren't allowed to participate in them? He said that was not his call, then just kind of avoided any further response or questioning. Just kind of had a stupid look on his face when I challenged him on that. He then thanked me and gave me some sort of stupid AWS coin tht looked like a gold piece, stamped with AWS logo and had a made in China sticker on it. I tosssed that somewhere into my tool box. I'll save it and perhaps use that uselees trinket to my advantage in a future situation with the company. I know there will be a time when they ask for our help, will really act like they need us to be part of the team. I'll give it to one of those manager then.
Better post before 4096
John, I'm just getting started.
Welcome back Superbia Parti.
I knew you'd have some intelligent post. I'll bet you have just been sitting back and absorbing for awhile. You are obviously a true American. This must be your blog, even though I once refered to it as John's blog. You haven't deleted any of my posts. So, that tells me that you are fair minded.
Yes, a big can of whoopass is just what is needed here. Jihadist dude can just to to hell. Lets open that can of whoopass, work together on making things right for all of us. I don't really even care if you stay anti-union as long as we can work to make thigs better for all of us.
Semper-Fi, John
Great post. Well thought out.
Previously I pointed out two corrrections that the Union worked with the company for the techies, CEP and the $1 incress across the board. That is a fact. Now, being a tester for 20+ years you might not have noticed the $1 for cal service tech, and perhaps you were already at the top when CEP moved the testers to the second tier, but those corrections did happen.
"--No, I also went by my own observations. When I crossed, they were set to roll product out. Engineers were all trained up to do the assemblers work."
I believe your observations. Most engineering folks aren't stupid, a lot are though, just my personal observation. They did train engineers to do assembly, because they figured that the PTEs could already handle test and cal service tech positions. I'm having a real hard time here swallowing that the engineers couldn't do testers work. Hell, half the test positions do all the work for you. Over the years I've personally watched a lot of testers sit back, punch a button, read the paper and wait for the test position to say pass or fail. If it doesn't pass then they have let the PTE do the troubleshooting. I've told the tester that they need to keep their skills up and keep the PTEs away and do the troubleshooting themselves. If testers get lazy and don't learn to troubleshoot the product and then let the PTEs do it, then the company can train a monkey to push the buttons on a piece of test equipment and let the engineers do the troubleshooting. Now don't get in a hissy fit here, you know what I'm talking about. Sure, there are some real good testers out there, both Union and Oustie, a lot of the free loading testers are like what I've mentioned above. They are the ones that want something for nothing and will do as little as they have to. There are testers and cal service techs that can run circles around a lot engineers. I'm fortunate, at least up in AMRAAM guidance area, (AMRAAM FACO is a whole different story) there are some very smart engineers, that I've come to respect, they don't care about the company crap any more than I do and they let me know it too. I've even filed grievance on there sorry asses (that was said jokingly) for them trying to do my job as a cal service tech. As I said they are good, they still need me, but they can get the TP up and working fine without me. AMRAAM guidance is the only place I've worked that I can say that about. Well except for AMRAAM transmitter area, where Dougie works, when Frank Heran was there as a tester, he knew how to trouble shoot the product and the test positions. Frank is a very smart guy, he's making a very smart engineer too. I hope Frank completes an engineering degree and doesn't get caught in that salaried layoff, which will happen and even though Frank is very sharp, the company would let him go first over some stupid assed PTE who has an engineering degree. Hopefully and I actually believe that there are enough management in AMRAAM that know this is true about Frank and would keep him.
Gotta watch the 4096 limit.
John
"Fear mongering"
"On the other hand, here is more of your fear mongering. Basically, what you are saying is that the company is evil and out to get me. I can’t believe that"
I don't see it as fear mongering, just reality. No, I've never said the company was evil, or out to get me. Bob Guth may be out to get me, but not the company. They just want to get me and you too for as cheap as they can. That just makes good book keeping sense for a book keeper. That's who they have running the show now, None of the VSMs that I know of are techies, in the old days they all were, but now these VSMs don't know shit about the technical world. Couldn't tell the differnce in between a resitor and a waveguide. Hell, even the PTEs complain about the VSMs stupid asses. Now, maybe they are good at organization, but I don't think so. They like to hold their little gumball partys and tell everyone what a great team we are. Yes, I hear them all clapping at their little production rallys in the mornings, standing the the Frigging hallway when I'm trying to get through to work on a downed TP and have a cart full of equipment and tools. Stand right in my way and look at me as if what the hell are you doing crossing through our meeting (In the friggin hallway, where people are supposed to be able to walk through). They'll be there for at least 1/2 hour every morning. So, now I don't even head out of the lab until after 7:30, just isn't worth it, they can have the damn hallway, the TP can wait.
You have so much going on in this one paragraph, I could post quite a bit about it and I will.
More of your post:
"You union people seem to live in fear of the evil company and you keep the rumor circulating that without your protection, we will all be lost. I am sorry but I really don’t see things that way. The company is the company period. It has no interest other than making money. I can’t consider this evil as I am a capitalist myself."
I don't live in fear of anything or anyone. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of death I will fear no evil, for I have the lord at my side" Or my version, "because I'm the meanest MF in the valley". Really I believe in the first more, but the Marines taught me the second one, to be the meanest. The best defense is a great offense. That is a true staement and we have to be on the offensive with the company too. An offensive Union is our best defense in dealing with the company. Hey, Capialism is good, but you need to keep it in check or they will have us working in a third world situation. Just look at NAPI. Hey I love those guys and gals.
Yes, the company has paid a lot for our clearences, but don't fool yourself here. They'd dump our asses if they could for a much cheaper labor force, clearences or not. Ever heard the saying save a penny, lose a dollar? (something like that, not sure if I have it quite right though).
I'm afraid I'll have to make another post. You really have some good stuff for me to work with.
John
Remember my comment earlier about the freeloading tester? You've made my point exactly. The PTE's can do a testers job very well.
Your post, like I said some really good stuff to work with here.
"Ok, now let’s talk about money. Why does the union oppose merit raises? Why do I make the same amount as a new hire fresh off the street or as the button pusher who can barely find the time to stop surfing the internet long enough to start up a test? Because the union says so."
Money, it's all about the money with you ousties, isn't it. You don't see the bigger picture, pass throughs, pensions, health care benifits, etc. I too care about money, who doesn't?
Merit pay, why do we oppose it? We don't really, but with merit pay about 50% will go to those who really do deserve it and the other 50% will go to kiss assed favorites. That is just a fact, hell, I think I was very generous there, more like 10% to those who deserve it and 90% to kiss assed freeloaders. The comany can and will give you a bonus if you want, they do it all the time and the Union doen't do anything to stop it. They can easily give us back the RONA if they want to and the Union will not stop it. They have Millions to give out in bonuses, they give us gumballs and pizza partys, sometimes they will give us a few bucks too. Hey, I once got a $1500 bonus. Somehow that one slipped by ol Bob Guth. But those are nothing compared to the bonuses they give themselves. Out of that pocket of bonuse money (millions) 95% goes to executives (who already make a pile of dough) and really not even 5% goes to the lowly labor force.
Actually the company promoted the idea of a new hire making the same as you. There used to be a lot of different labor grades, you'd come in the door at a lower pay, then over the years promote into a higher labor grade. The company didn't like that, they got rid of that and combined occupations so that everyone got the same pay. That is exactly how this whole pay disparity issue that you ousties are upset about came about.
Ohh, thank you so much for your post, it has given me great opportunity to tell the truth.
Let's see if I can squeeze this in before the 4096 limit hits. Stupid 4096 limt.
Opps, didn't make the 4096 limit rule again. Here's the rest.
Your post:
"One other thing. Why does the union hold to this us versus them attitude when talking about our salaried co-workers? You (John) said somewhere up above that you passed by Louise on plant and she looked down her nose at you. I also had the opportunity to meet Louise and found her to be a warm and welcoming nice person."
I love cut and paste if you haven't noticed.
It's not us vs them with salaried co-workers. A lot of salaried co-workers are just like us. It is us vs them aginst company agents, i.e. VSMs and such. It has to be, just a fact. I don't like it anymore than you. I really wish that this company would see the value in truely appreciating their labor force. But, companys like Raythen don't see that value. Unlike more sucessful companys like Microsoft, Google, etc. That is the only reason that we have Unions. There would be no need for a Union at Google.
I never got to meet Louise personally. She did look down her nose at me though. Maybe I didn't shower that day. Hey, on a one on one, they are like the politician running for election. They know how to act like they really care. After that they become there real selves. Did you know that Louise was at Raytehon yesturday. I don't know why, but I'm sure she got her $50K or more like $100K (pres $ vs VP $50K) to come and give a little speech to wannabe company agents (leadership), part of that golden parachute that they all get. She's probably back at her other job (future golden parachute) by now. Hey, they take care of themselves and their own. Ready for that gumball party? Yea haw, they love us soooo much. They value us soooo much.
Well I wish I could get back to sleep, but, no rest for the wicked. It's time to get ready for Falcon Field, the wife is up now and looking at me like I'm crazy because I've been up for more than 2 hours posting here.
post you tomorrow.
Once again, thanks to Superbi Parti. We really are not that much different.
John, still not hiding in the bushes.
Well its like a breath of fresh air to hear that from you John, about the company gimmicks, now how to get the people to kick the habit. It's like a teenager with their first pack of cigarettes, we
need to stop them now before it's too late and they are addicted.
Your statements about some testers being lazy is true and is possibly
skewing the company's view of test and it's pay. Should probably go back to the labor grades and have the button pushers separate from the technical testers and pay them accordingly. I know that would make some people happy.
Here is something that pobably has not been addressed before, punch-in by or before 7 am is a real hassle especially when you have to penetration multiple layers of security on computers and on closed area doors. If it is all functioning properly it is difficult. When one or more
systems is not working like the computers it is a nightmare. The reason I bring this up is we are held accountable for attendance and can be disciplined and even terminated for too many tardies.
It would be great to have an easy punch-in system that works.
I couldn't agree more about the morning attendence punch in crap. It is really a hassle. More than once myself i've been in at least 15 minutes early and have not been able to log into PRISUM to punch in. PRISUM, what a fine wonderful thing, NOT. Years ago when I was at Allied Signal (now Honeywell) all you had to do as an hourly was swipe your ID badge and you were on the clock. We have to swipe in just to get in the door. That is all the company should need. Hell, once I come through that front door, what else am I here for? Oh yea, fun and entertainment. Sure, me personally, since I go to Falcon field in the early morning, want to eat breakfast and it takes me 10 or 15 minutes to do that and clean my dishes. But for most of us it is get to work. But, we have to wait in line to get on the computer and log in, then access your time card via PRISUM to punch in. It is rare that it works the first time. So, you are left in a vulnerable position if you don't arrive early enough. I think the commpany is aware of this though, since I rarely have to deal with attendance problems anymore. I really think that the VSMs are more concerened with us getting the product out than they are about a few of us being a couple of minutes late and even though the company has instituded their zero attendance policy they (VSMs)just ignore it, so they can keep their labor force and not have to deal with HR.
Geez, my eyes are so FU this morning. I had a lot of corrections to fix. Oh, yea, this is Saturday morning and Johnnie did do some whiskey drinking last night. Now I understand why my head is so fuzzy.
Whiskey river take my mind ..... I love Willie. I'll never get on the bus and smoke dope with Willie though. Toby Keith wrote a great song about that. Country music is America's music. I will listen to the oldies, the new music, but mostly talk radio. I've got more to say, but ther isn't much to respond from this blog tonight. So I'll post before 4096.
John, really, Johnnie. My give name. Hi Princess. Glad to know your reading these posts.
Let me explain about Princess. She's a very talented and skilled assembler.She is a Unionist, trains otheres and is a very skilled, capable and hard worker. She gets alot of flack from co-workers, because of her work ethic. some say it is just kissing up. NOT SO, kissing up is when you don't do a damn thing and to survive you learn to suck up to the man in order to keep your job. Princess doesn't do that. Princess, likes to keep busy and do a great job. So Princess does a grea job. The VSM's know it and perhaps reward her for it. I think that is great. You can be a true believer in Unionism and still do a great job. There are a lot of other Unionist who do believe in doing a great job.
Now, I had a conversation today with the last person still wearing an anti Union button in 847. Little fat assed so and so. I told him he should get rid of that badge and join the Union. Those of you who know me know that I don't bug people about being in the Union. Anyway, little fat ass told me that the Union never knew him before. What the FUXX? Hell I'd helped little fat ass several times prior to the strike. He had attencedance problems, fell asleep on the job all the time and broke test equipment. Prior to going on the strike little fat ass was so close to being walked out the door. I didn't like representing him then, but I do my job as a steward. So I let little fat ass know this, he started mumbling and I walked away.
He is your Ousties last reprensation in our building. If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't want him being the only person left to represent me. I'd walk up and take that FuXXing badge off of him.
Worthless piece of crap he is. Need more COFFEE.
Great coffee, Got some now. Special blend that I grind. I can remember very many years ago when I'd drink instant coffee. Joke as you will, but there must have been lot of others who drank instant too back then. Do they still even make instant anymore? anyway the caffine is starting to kick in and I've only one post to reply to tonight. So, I'll just put some of my own thoughts out here in my next post.
Princess are you here? Of course I know your not here right now, no way you could look so beautiful and be up at this hour like me. I'd like to read your posts too, you are very smart and could add an intelligent perspective from a hard working, experienced assembler.
You're one of those untechnical(?) assemblers that the ousties are always complaining about. Let them know your side. Me, I'm a techie that believes that you are not untechnical. Flapping burgs at McD's is untechnical. Building the most sophisticated missiles in the world doesn't compare with flapin burgers.
John
Hey, Superbia Parti, I really did enjoy your last post. We need more posts from you.
John
Okay, here it goes.
I never read this blog until after the contrat ratification. Not sure why I read it now. I do think I can clear up some misconceptions that you ousties have about the Union.
Maybe I haven't convinced you to join the Union, but I hope I've made a dent in your misguided way of thinking. I have put up some seriously true info. There has been no BS on my part. I don't claim to know it all but, I think I'm very close to the truth.
So, let's unite. I will hold no grudges, for you have been true to your own beliefes. Unlike the freeloaders and traitors. You ousties are smart, not smart enough to get rid of the Union though. We won't go away. So, work with us to achieve your goals too. I'm not asking you to join, though that would be nice and a real big feather in my cap if you did join. But I know that won't happen. I'm a realist. Some times way to more realistic than I should be. I need to stop and smell the roses once in awhile. But, I'm driven to go a different way. You have got to learn to know yourself and go accordingly, trying to fight your own personality just causes you pain. PAIN, is something I know quite a bit about. I live with it daily. I can and do handle the physical par of it, the mental part is the hardest.
Guess I've been rambling a bit here, but it's your fault , not mine. If there were more posts here then I'd be addressing them instead of all this self reflecting BS that you should keep to yourself. Keep it packed in hard, then pack in more and more. That is what a real man should do.
Geez, I thought I had some more. Actually I do.
John
Little fat bastard and Princess. I hate to put the two in the same paragraph, let alone the same blog. But, it makes my point about the techies vs the assemblers. This fat ass SOB tester (?), should have vetted him years ago, doesn't have the brain capacity that Princess does. There is no way that this tester deserves more pay than her.
There is one VSM in 847 that I respect. Shelia, hell who could not respect her? She's a fine VSM, company got a great deal here with her, unlike GR. GR is more like fat assed SOB tester. Doesn't know shit.
I don't believe Shelia is very technical, but she is smart. Captain in the Army reserves, VSM at Raytheon and very attractive to boot. Always a smile an a "HI" to John. Now that's respect. GR will walk past me and not even acknowlege me. Shelia always does, no matter who she's with. GR will certainly call on my help when needed. But, never show respect. I wish I supported Shela instead of GR.
Princess and Shelia, two great women that I respect. One from assembly and one from management. There are others too. There are testers too that I respect . Jeff Hilburger from AMRAAM Faco, even though he crossed the picket line. He is one smart tester and deserves to make way more than fat SOB, but due to the company's infinate wisdom they make the same. Hell, a custodian should make more than fat SOB.
Fat SOB works for Shelia, she's complained about him to me. She has no where else to put him becaue he can't do a real tester job. He's still wearing his (not 933) button though. Damn, aint he a fine represntive for you ousties.
Grt rid of his useless fat ass.
John
I sure wish there were more posts for me to write about, but there isn't. I really need to get back to my other buisness ventures here on the iternet. Things have been a bit slow there too, due to the economy, but it has allowed me the time/opportunity to express my Union views here. I hope you've enjoyed it. I hope my internet business picks up again, I'm sure it will. But, then I won't have time to post, because time is money. There is more to do on the internet than blogging and porno. There is a way to make even more money that what I get from the company. That maybe part of the reason I don't care that as a techie that I don't make $6 more an hour. There are unlimted ways to make money. All legal. You just have to figure it out. It's really not very hard to. If you weren't so busy bashing the Union, you'd have learned that by now if your smart, unlike fat assed, lazy SOB tester.
John, still not hiding in the bushes.
Damn glad he finally rolled over and went to sleep.
Oh come one. I thought you guys's would have more to offer than that. One little sentence post?
Anonymous said...
Damn glad he finally rolled over and went to sleep.
Dec 12, 2009 6:31:00 AM
You folks sleep way too much. I get all the sleep I need. Sleep is okay,but very overrated. Just hink of all that you couldbe getting done right now if you were't tucked away in your little bed.
I've hit this blog a lot lately. Kind of on a mission here to tell the truth. But, when I'm not here I'm doing other things and I make some $ at it too. I'm not waiting on that friggin pension, or social security. I'll be covered on my own way before I need that . But, go ahead and sleep like a baby. Hey, we all make chices in life. I just finally stopped fighting the sleep issue. Obviously my body doesn't need as much as others.
Ummm, this is a damn good cup of coffee.
Well I'll go back through some older posts while you sleep. When you wake and read this, try and think of an issue worth posting, besides sleep.
John
Now this is a post worthy of my response.
"Anonymous said...
"Its clear that the company is not threatened by the union."
I don't understand why the company keeps the union around.
For three years, this group has educated the masses. When (not if) we accept this contract tomorrow afternoon, we'll have another three years to show the masses just how screwed IAM933 is.
There's an election for officers of this union in a week. Take all of the wisdom accumulated over this time and replace them all!
Oct 31, 2009 7:12:00 AM"
You still just don't get it do you? The company doesn't want to get rid of the Union. The company likes to have a Union around. It is much easier for them to deal with us as a single entity. Hell, when this company was formed back in the 50"s ol Howard Hughes want the Union here, Sure, he was a bit touched, but smart as hell and understood that it would be a much easier and cheaper way to do business. He, brought the IAM into the picture. He wanted a Union in here.
Raytheon doesn't want to get rid of the Union either. They just want to do what it takes to keep it weak and to keep usfighting amongst ourselves. That makes it very easy for them to shove it down our throats.
One day I pray that you will seriously figure that out, then we'll be able to get what we need from the company. I'm not talking about getting more than we deserve, but at least get our fair share of the profit that we've worked for, instead of ol Bill and Taylor. What's a couple Mill less for them each year and spread that amongst the labor force. Hey, they'd still be getting millions anyway.
So, like you've said we have another three years before the next contract. Let's do something positive together this time. This company loves to see us fight amongs ourselves. I will work for you and all of us to make some good things come about. I pledge to make it so. Reach out to me and let's get us all a good plan. Stop focusing on what the assemblers make. We can all make good money that we deserve. No more, no less. It's really just that simple.
Yes, there is an election this week for DBR and three negotiating committee member. We really have a great negotiating committee, but I think change is always good, (No, I'm not an Obomanist). I, as a memember will get to vote then. I think the 15th? And I will make my choices. You will not be able to vote, because you refuse to become a part of the Union. That's just a damn shame. You don't have any say in your future here. Wake up, (no pun intended) and join us. Together we can and will make a difference in three short years. It will be here before we know it, so don't delay. the sooner we get together and form and execute our plan the better off we will all be.
John, Yea, the good stuff.
And you thought I should be sleeping.
Superbia Parti, Doug and the other oustie leaders, now is the time for us to get together. Really come out of the bushes. I know that you are fearful of the repercussions of your previous actions. And damn rightfully so. But, on my part I'd rather us work together for a better contract in three years. I have put aside my anger towards you so that we can accomplish that. I belive other Union leaders have too. I'm not saying it will be easy and that there aren't some others out there that would wish to have their retribution, but they are few and will eventually come to understand that it is better to work with you guys. Hey, I've said it before, that I think you are some smart folks, and it does takes some brass balls to do what you did. You put it out on the line. You made yourselves a target. But, together we caqn make a positive difference. Let's get together, at a nuetral place. You pic. I know you all like the TTT. So, why not set up a plan to meet there one weekend, after the holidays and start strategising. Oustie and Union, biscuits and gravey too. Some good chow and I know you guys like the good chow. Breakfast ismy favorite meal of the day. We don't need an agenda, just an airing of the issues, then we'll set up another meeting to really start working on a plan. You would really be able to champion you main issue, the pay disparity. That meeting will be the starting point. Hoefully great things will come from it.
Anyway, you know how to get in touch with me. Give me a page next week and I'll arrange the meeting.
First though, tell fat assed SOB to take that fuXXing not 933 badge off.
John. hopeful that you'll come out of the bushes this time.
Hey, were're having a potluck down at the the electicians hall today after the union meeting. Stop by and chat. I'll stand with you.
Probably be a short meeting, done by 1230/1300 hrs. Probably some good eatin today.
"Hell, when this company was formed back in the 50"s ol Howard Hughes want the Union here, Sure, he was a bit touched, but smart as hell and understood that it would be a much easier and cheaper way to do business. He, brought the IAM into the picture. He wanted a Union in here."
Where does that apocryphal sleepy-time story come from? Seriously?
Look, I'm going to play Mythbuster right now, okay? This should keep you awake for a few minutes.
Here's the source, by the way - a genuine left-wing media outlet:
Scorsese Takes Lessons from Managed Media
What Scorsese conceals with his rose colored camera lens, is what followed just a few years later. Namely, Hughes own record of vicious red baiting and union busting. This odd memory lapse is likely related to Scorsese's own odious act at the 1999 Academy Awards, in presenting an honorary Oscar to House Un-American Activities snitch and accomplice to precipitating the Blacklist, Elia Kazan. And this before Scorsese's stunned and dismayed colleagues in the Academy audience. Will his circuitous bid to honor yet another betrayer in Hollywood at the Oscars this year, likewise raise a storm if The Aviator wins awards?
Hughes had actually recruited a succession of filmmakers to direct his movie, "I Married A Communist," as a ploy to weed out Hollywood leftists, in a test of their so-called patriotism. Those who turned down the job had their names turned over to HUAC and the Blacklist, by Hughes.
In the newspaper The Las Vegas Mercury last year, , there was an article, "The Story Behind The Las Vegas Story," the name of a 1952 Hughes movie. The film's screenwriter, Paul Jarrico, was summoned to appear before HUAC during production, and refused to testify. Hughes, a rabid anti-communist, immediately fired Jarrico illegally, refused to allow him even to retrieve his personal belongings from the RKO Studio, and removed his name from the credits. According to the Mercury article, this is what followed:
"The Writers Guild, acting under its collective bargaining agreement, determined that Jarrico was legally entitled to a screen credit, and they threatened Hughes with a strike. Hughes remained defiant of the contract, and filed a countersuit, claiming Jarrico had violated the morals clause of his contract by not revealing to RKO his involvement with the Communist Party."
Hughes, with all his money, of course, prevailed in court. Before the Writers Guild had time to react with a strike, Hughes fired everyone, claiming he was curtailing production until "the communist problem was solved." In the climate of the Red Scare, the Guild and Jarrico were on the losing side. And Hughes' brazen dismissal of Guild arbitration had a chilling effect on Hollywood.
So, you're going to tell me that - in '52 or '53 no less - Howard was going to be okay in inviting a union at his new facility? Please; this man was NO friend to labor at all. As a devout unionist, you should KNOW this stuff, John. Ask that question to one of those old-timers still wandering around down there at today's meeting; perhaps the REAL answer will be spoken!
Your turn; I say "BUSTED"; prove me wrong!
So, this man, being the enemy of communism and labor at this very same time, was going to [i]willingly[/i] arrange to have a labor union in his new plant?
My someone else got up early this morning too. I'll play. I've been a little busy the last few hours making $. Just thought I'd check in, I really didn't expect to find a new post. This is fun.
"The Writers Guild, acting under its collective bargaining agreement, determined that Jarrico was legally entitled to a screen credit, and they threatened Hughes with a strike. Hughes remained defiant of the contract, and filed a countersuit, claiming Jarrico had violated the morals clause of his contract by not revealing to RKO his involvement with the Communist Party."
Old HH got burned back then. Still he won, due to his bucko bucks, which he rightfully deserved. Self made, not like those CEo leaches that we have today. Inherited wealth, connections, coconspiritors, etc. I sit on your board and vote you big bonuses and you sit on my board, tit for tat.
So after HH got burned and started Hughes aircraft he decided to not let that happen again. So he personally picked the IAM, because they were a small disfunctional Union. He figured he could control them very well. He did. The Union has grown and though still somewhat dysfunctonal, it is evolving, or will with my help into the 21st century.
Go back to sleep and try again.
"Your turn; I say "BUSTED"; prove me wrong!
Dec 13, 2009 3:49:00 AM"
The next move is yours. Really so much effort for so little result. Put your efforts towards building, not busting. You'll prosper better for it.
John, not hiding in the bushes.
Your post:
"Anonymous said...
So, this man, being the enemy of communism and labor at this very same time, was going to [i]willingly[/i] arrange to have a labor union in his new plant?
Dec 13, 2009 4:42:00 AM"
Yep, read my latest post.
Went back to sleep didn't you?
No Oustie believes that Howard Hughes invited the union here. His rabid hate for communism and his anti union stance are well documented. The iam933 dot net page has a small blurb about it here. This is an old rumor that's been circulated within union circles for years. Give it up. It's not true. You can't substantiate the claim. Howard Hughes did NOT invite the union here, he was coerced.
Sad that John couldn't provide an adequate answer to that earlier post.
Damn,
I can't believe that I just lost that last post. It was the best ever. I just got a new laptop for the wife with windows 7 on it and and was using it instead of my regular desktop PC and the same issue happen while doing one of my business ventures that probably cost me a couple of $k. Well, I'll recoup that in the morning. Also, I'll probably make a better post anyway.
I bet you cant wait.
Mostly my post clearly pointed out how idiotic it was, that the ousties referendeced RAYTHEON thoughtout the entire Wikipedia entry. There was no RAYTHEON when HH was around, then the rest of he Wikipedi entry is clearly from the ousties, anyone with half a brain can figure that one out. I did, and I don't claim to be smart. Anyone can post on Wikipedia.
What I found most offensive though was some little chicken shit, that the blog master did. He changed my name from STEWARD to John. That the chicken shit included my personal email address. jadrockinw@msn.com. How brave of him to do that, sitting at his computer, with all the control over this blog. Is he man enough to allow this to post? I guess I'll see soon, GARY. Why don't you post your own personal email here? Why not use your real name as I have. If this is the kind of representaion you want then you will get what you deserve. If not, then go ahead and email me at jadrockinw@msn.com
Another thing that bothers me about this crap is that in the beginning, a few of you gave me crap, then after awhile, some of you started encouraging me. So, what happened? Were others afraid that I was telling the truth?
If this post doesn't go through and be allowed here, I will find another way to get it out (I can cut and paste it all, including all of the other posts) and just exactually what you have done, POSTMASTER
Lose me as a Union spoksman for your issue over pay disparity, then you will. You delete my post tonight, don't ever expect me back. I will be somewhere else that you will have no control over. I will still get my message out. There is NOTHING you can do to stop me in other Blogs. I can play the same games, I can divert too.
Well, it's getting late and I've been up since 1 am. Gotta go to work. I'll be checking this blog in a few hours, to see if you've deleted me. If so, then, instead of a voice for your cause, then you will have an enemy again.
Your choice.
John, the STEWARD
Semper-FI, Go RECON
Your post:
Anonymous said...
Sad that John couldn't provide an adequate answer to that earlier post.
Dec 13, 2009 10:50:00 AM
I didn't have an adequate question. That question was so full of crap, just like I said in my last post.
You guys need facts, you don't have any. I'm not going to waste my time on your drivel. Give me true facts from a legitmate source, then I will spend more time to investigate. Otherwise it cost me too much $. I make $ from my time on the computer. You are all getting my time for free, at a $ cost to me. I'm actualluly starting to make more money off the internet (Legitmatly, no unsolicited emails, etc. just pure internet business) than I do at work. SO, every minute I spend here either costs me sleep or $. I give up some sleep for this.
Enough for tonight, I need some sleep. I've been up since 1am.
Good night. Please some constructive post tomorrow.
John
You all just sleep too damn much, that's why your heads are so full of crap. Still partyingwith your pillow.
Actually I am a little jealouse. Things are what they are, so here I am again.
After the Union meeting today and the potluck. Man I'm still full from the potluck. Hey, like us or not, I gaurantee that yout would have like the food today. Al this week long, except for maybe Friday, I have one potluck after another for lunch. I made some great green chile last night for our Union members potluck luncheon today. If you join today I'll let you have some. Really it would be worth the membership price just for the green chili alone.
HI Princes, I hope your still reading these posts.
I got to thinking, yes on occasion I do that, but it usually gets me into trouble. But, I'm used to it. That, who really cares whether ol HH picked this union or not? Really it doesn't mean shit one way or another. Did you know that he's ben dead for quite sometime now?
I heard that story for many years, maybe it is an Urban Legend, who knows for sure. But, what does it really matter one way or another.
My Railroad story is a proven fact. My account of Allied signal is something that I witnessed. Did I ever tell you about my brother in law who once worked for a door factory up in Phoenix? I will, but first I'll post before I hit the ol 4096. Really, that must be the true end of the world date, not 2012.
John
Perhaps I was a little out of line in my posts last night. I got pissed at the web master. It might have just been the way Google does things. It was the first time though that I had seen my name and email on the "Choose an identity" part of this post. Maybe I'm the only one who can actually see it. Well to late I guess, I gave my email away. I know Doug has had it for years anyway and could have had the ousties use it to attack me at anytime they wanted to. So, I appologize for my chickenshit remarks from last nights post. It was late for me. 10PM, 2200 hrs for you is way past my normal bedtime.
Anyway, back to my earlier remarks about my brother in law. He's really a great guy, kind of the big ol Oaf, if you will.
He worked for this door company up in Phoenix years agoe (I think their name was Glenmar, not sure though). This company was family owned. They had a Union, but treated their employees quite fairly and paid them very well, this was back in the 70's maybe very early 80's. Like I said this company was a family owned business, very sucessful, paid good wages and benifits for the times. All the management were from the family, no outsiders. Eventually the kids took over, old man retired. Things started to change. They asked their employees, haven't we always taken care of you? The employees said yes you have, it's been great to work for you. So, why then do we need this Union? There is no real reason for it is there? The employees, grumbled amongst themselves but, finally had to conceed that they just did not need a Union anymore. The company had always taken care of them. Unions were a thing of the past. Not needed anymore. So, they decertified their Union. After that the company brought in some new hires, most with a very latin expression. Paid them about half what the others were making. Had the old employees do some training, then after a few months, when these low paid spanish speaking employees started to get good at what they were doing all of the old employees started getting laid off, fired, etc. Within 6 months of decertifying all of the original employees were gone, including my Brother in Law.
Well before you say it, it actually did happen the way I said it. That is a fact, not something I didn't see for myself, like old HH. This was before I had ever been in a Union myself and had no real feeling towards Unions one way or another. I actually didn't even like the Union when I was here the first two times with Huges, first as salaried from 1984 through 1988, then as a contractor, 1990 thru 1992. During those two times I worked for a couple of other employers, one a small time outfit who did work for Allied Signal and the other times for Allied signal itself.
A lot of you ousties, in the service of our country, have never worked anywhere else than Raytheon, in the civilian world. At least not for a long time. So I can understand how you could have all these misconceptions about Unions. I know in my occupation (Cal Service Tech) alot of you retired from the USAF after 20 years. The USAF, although nearly civilian compared to my USMC is the military, and everyone just follows the rules and it works out pretty damn good. The Military doesn't run on a for profit motive like Raytheon does. There is quite a bit of difference in the way they do business. The military wants to retain it's employees and treats them fairly. Raytheon could give a shit about it's employees. That is why we need a Union here. Hey, just ask the security gaurds here at Raytheon. They would love to be a part of our Union again, but can't.
Okay, I've really got to take care of some business here and maybe grab another hour of sleep. I'll check back in before I do get that other hour, just to see if anyone else is awake yet.
John, sleep tight.
"Hey, just ask the security gaurds here at Raytheon. They would love to be a part of our Union again, but can't."
Funny you ask. They have been asked. Most, not all, prefer things the way they are.
There are two sides to the union coin. The job security example is a sad one, but defeatable in today's world.
That business wouldn't try hiring replacement workers and then firing long time workers without serious consequences. The laws hae changed a lot since the 80s.
John, while reading your rants I have come to the conclusion you are an old xenophobe bordering on being a hard core bigot whose thought processes are random and incoherent at best. Your diatribe is not based on any fact. You spout only your delusional opinionated sporadic thoughts. I sense you may have not cracked open a book in years let alone read a book jacket description. How can you with a clear conscience represent the hourly in any legal fashion? You are proof we don’t need your union representation. You and your kind are not doing us any favors in your representation. If only the newly employed hourly could read your drivel on this blog they would see the quality of representation they would receive with their monthly extortion payment. Your representation of my job makes me ashamed to be a skilled hourly employee at this plant site. Sorry I don’t really see any “triple t” time with you in the future. You can eat those eggs and french fried tatters on your own.
Signed Oustie Zeta.
Careful about using those polysyllabic words around; they might think you're one of those college-educated engineers!
How in the heck did Jimbo get honored with "organizer of the year?"
This is an open forum. Share "respect". I for one am glad that John has come around. In the not too distant past, he would just grunt at any crossers, or non union, and hiss at an oustie. In contrast to that, he has made a large contribution to the blog. Do I agree with it all? Hello! *bonk*! But he is telling things as he sees it. The readers can see both arguments and figure it all out. Each side should be happy to post their position, knowing thousands of eyes are reading.
We have a local unionist blogging here. 'Bout time! Debate can happen now.
Election Time 2MoRrOw!
So who are you going to vote for?
JW or LM? Who would push for our agnda?
Does the newcomer to the negociating committee fight have a chance? I would vote him. Ask them all to tell you about technical pay, then decide. Good luck. What was Obama's slogan again?! Are we better off than we were three years ago? Are you one of those thousand points of light? Whatever~lol.
Doug - stirring the pot - *cough*
I tend to agree with Oustie Zeta. I find it eerie that he is essentially hitting on 2 of his female coworkers and he is married. Another observation I have had. He talks of proof yet offers none himself. Every story he has offered for proof that unions are good is on his word alone with no verifiable facts. However, he won’t respond to things he doesn’t like due to lack of proof. He sure likes to crow about how he has answered all the charges on this blog with truth but I only see muddied waters along with the standard socialistic, stale, over worn unionist bull crap.
This is way to easy for me:
"Your post:
Anonymous said...
"Hey, just ask the security gaurds here at Raytheon. They would love to be a part of our Union again, but can't."
Funny you ask. They have been asked. Most, not all, prefer things the way they are.
There are two sides to the union coin. The job security example is a sad one, but defeatable in today's world.
That business wouldn't try hiring replacement workers and then firing long time workers without serious consequences. The laws hae changed a lot since the 80s.
Dec 14, 2009 5:53:00 AM"
Sure they prefer things the way they are. They really like rotating shifts. Working a long shift one day and sent home early the next day before they hit the 40 hour work week so the company won't have to pay them OT. Most of the gaurds now are newer , the ol gaurds form the past are gone. Also, they have the highest turnover of any one group on our plantsite. Notice their Gestapo uniforms now? Also, notice how a few look more like gang bangers? Some of the others like grandmothers? I sure feel secure.
When they were still housed with the firefighters (Solid Unionists here , 100% Union, Go Sam.), we got alot of info about the gaurds. They are a very disgruntled group. After the company moved them from out of the firegighters building, which was a legitmate move because the firefighters needed the room. Notice how the company moved them over to the trailer behind 811? They park right on the curve, where our good Union brothers used to park with their IAM933 windshields. Just a coincidence? I don't belive so. Hey, the company deals the cards, that's why we have to be a smart player.
I went to your "consequences" line in your last paragraph. I've seen that video before. It was part of our stewards training. There are more of these anti-union types of videos that were put out by a non-profit (I can't remember the exact wording, but they are like the u-boat group, 501? something like that) These groups are purely political, they have an agenda. This groups agenda is to defeat Unions. They are legally funded by corporate america. GM, Raytheon and other large corporations have funneled money to them. They help groups like you ousties to try and decertify local Unions in order for them to further their corporate greed. You have bought their crap hook line and sinker. So far you haven't done a very good job at decertifying this Union, even with their help. I know they have other websites for you to use. They are the ones who told you guys to wear either orange or green tee shirts as a sign of solidarity (notice that word dsolidarity? It's taken right from our Union mantra) and to create websites similiar to our Unions website to spew their misinformation. You folks chose the orange tee shirt. How ironic, Why did ousties wear orange tee shirts? Because cheese is orange too.
You reference job security as a sad example of Unions. Why? Just wait until you work at a non-union company. You've been there 20 or so years, doing a good job, then an illness hits you, you spend time in the hospital then some more time at home recuperating. You finally get back to work, looking forward to it. Then the company lays you off, since they had to hire someone else (at a lower wage and even less benifits)to replace you while you were out. Or you just get old, have hit the top of your pay scale and they just stop giving you any more raises, to try and force you out. That is why Senority is paramount to Unions, It protects you in your older years. Just try to get a job after 50 somewhere else that pays the same as this. It can be done but it gets much harder after 50.
Those laws that have changed were championed by Unions, without Unions there would be none of those laws and without Unions those laws would go away.
You are sooo misguided.
John
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