The contract is sealed now. What have you got to say for yourselves? Are you happy? Did it work out as you thought it should? Here is a picture of the population chart at RMS. Does it make any wonder who got what around here? RMS gave us quite a generous offer considering the economy. But no effort was taken to repair the wages of the most skilled workers at the plant site. I just can't swallow that 9-80s were denied the work force. The Union Constitution doesn't want it. The members did. Can you live with that? If not, what are you going to do about it? As a non member, I am free to speak out against union policy, without any legal constraints that their constitution places on the members. I have done what I could. Now is the chance for Union members to make a difference. There is a Union Officer election soon. Are you happy with their performance? Make an appointment with yourself to vote for the people who fight for you. Dump those who perpetuated the same old BS. Send a message to the top. Did Jimbo get you what you wanted? Let him know. Did Ed do what a President should? Vote on it. Take command of your Union. Right now, they have command of you.
238 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 238 of 238This is way to easy for me:
"Your post:
Anonymous said...
"Hey, just ask the security gaurds here at Raytheon. They would love to be a part of our Union again, but can't."
Funny you ask. They have been asked. Most, not all, prefer things the way they are.
There are two sides to the union coin. The job security example is a sad one, but defeatable in today's world.
That business wouldn't try hiring replacement workers and then firing long time workers without serious consequences. The laws hae changed a lot since the 80s.
Dec 14, 2009 5:53:00 AM"
Sure they prefer things the way they are. They really like rotating shifts. Working a long shift one day and sent home early the next day before they hit the 40 hour work week so the company won't have to pay them OT. Most of the gaurds now are newer , the ol gaurds form the past are gone. Also, they have the highest turnover of any one group on our plantsite. Notice their Gestapo uniforms now? Also, notice how a few look more like gang bangers? Some of the others like grandmothers? I sure feel secure.
When they were still housed with the firefighters (Solid Unionists here , 100% Union, Go Sam.), we got alot of info about the gaurds. They are a very disgruntled group. After the company moved them from out of the firegighters building, which was a legitmate move because the firefighters needed the room. Notice how the company moved them over to the trailer behind 811? They park right on the curve, where our good Union brothers used to park with their IAM933 windshields. Just a coincidence? I don't belive so. Hey, the company deals the cards, that's why we have to be a smart player.
I went to your "consequences" line in your last paragraph. I've seen that video before. It was part of our stewards training. There are more of these anti-union types of videos that were put out by a non-profit (I can't remember the exact wording, but they are like the u-boat group, 501? something like that) These groups are purely political, they have an agenda. This groups agenda is to defeat Unions. They are legally funded by corporate america. GM, Raytheon and other large corporations have funneled money to them. They help groups like you ousties to try and decertify local Unions in order for them to further their corporate greed. You have bought their crap hook line and sinker. So far you haven't done a very good job at decertifying this Union, even with their help. I know they have other websites for you to use. They are the ones who told you guys to wear either orange or green tee shirts as a sign of solidarity (notice that word dsolidarity? It's taken right from our Union mantra) and to create websites similiar to our Unions website to spew their misinformation. You folks chose the orange tee shirt. How ironic, Why did ousties wear orange tee shirts? Because cheese is orange too.
You reference job security as a sad example of Unions. Why? Just wait until you work at a non-union company. You've been there 20 or so years, doing a good job, then an illness hits you, you spend time in the hospital then some more time at home recuperating. You finally get back to work, looking forward to it. Then the company lays you off, since they had to hire someone else (at a lower wage and even less benifits)to replace you while you were out. Or you just get old, have hit the top of your pay scale and they just stop giving you any more raises, to try and force you out. That is why Senority is paramount to Unions, It protects you in your older years. Just try to get a job after 50 somewhere else that pays the same as this. It can be done but it gets much harder after 50.
Those laws that have changed were championed by Unions, without Unions there would be none of those laws and without Unions those laws would go away.
You are sooo misguided.
John
Not sue why my previous post got double posted. Maybe it was ment to be since it makes so much sence.
John
Greatings Zeta,
Dec 14, 2009 11:29:00 AM
You sure are a weird one. Call your self Zeta, what is that crap? I guess you'll give me some lame assed explination sometime. Obviously you are still to afraid to use you real name, unlike Doug.
So, I'm an:
"old xenophobe bordering on being a hard core bigot whose thought processes are random and incoherent at best."
Not sure where the bigot comes from, except that I'm tired of all the PC crap, you must be a closet LIBERAL.
Don't make me have to get a dictionary, my, you use some strange words here. I am getting old though and I've gained wisdom in the process.
Every thing I've posted has been based on fact. Maybe some of my facts, or conclusions are wrong, but most are right on the mark. You just can't handle it, that is why you revert to this weird assed dribble full of strange words.
Yes, I read, and perhaps you're right there. I mostly read, newspapers, news and home improvement magazines, etc. I search the internet, political blogs, listen to AM and FM radio. Yes, I clearly keep my head stuck in the sand. You one the other hand read a lot of since fiction. Clearly a smart choice, gives you so much insight into the real world. Go back to your old Gene Rodenbery books.
I hope the newly employed read my post, the smart ones will read both of our posts and know I'm right and that you are out in outerspace somewhere.
If your ashamed of being a skilled hourly employee, then it is you own fault. Why would I have anything to do with your shame. You are an IDIOT.
I too don't want to sit down at the TTT with you for breakfast, I'd probably lose all that good food after being near your stench.
Okay Zeta, really " Live long and prosper"
See, my Si-FI is from the 70's. Since then I've had my feet planted squarely on mother Tera.
John
"Anonymous said...
Careful about using those polysyllabic words around; they might think you're one of those college-educated engineers!
Dec 14, 2009 5:13:00 PM"
Your right, "polysyllabic" I need a dictionary here. How can I even reply to this post? I'm just a dmb colled educated technician. Maybe if I were one of those engunears I'd of thunk of som smrt werds her.
You're funny man.
John
"Anonymous said...
How in the heck did Jimbo get honored with "organizer of the year?"
Dec 14, 2009 5:56:00 PM"
I don't know these things? Well yes I do, maybe because it was because he, Steve and others have recruited many more members to this Union. Not just from Raytheon, but Vertech, L3 Comp and many others. Just brought in another 600, but they elected to start their own local. A little bit of a blow to our local which worked hard to get them, but still a great victory for the IAM. Hey, guess, what, this local is now charged with recruiting all over the entire south western United States, a big group out in OK is next. We haven't been sleeping and sitting back cowering while you were trying to decertify us. While you ousties were playing your little games we have been expanding. Yes, we my frined have been growing, while you have colapsed. we've grown because finally the working class have woken up and once again are seeing the light from the Unions candle of freedom and prosparity (geez, even I'm starting to sound a little weird here. Reminder, keep feet planted on Tera).
Thanks for that simple little post, it gave me the opportunity to brag about what we've been doing.
So, Jimbo got that Award. I gues I did know why.
John
Doug makes a great post here with legitimate questions. It is election day and I will be going to Falcon field in a bit, then over to the Union hall to help get ready for this election day. After we get our quorum and open the polls, I will vote and I have decided to take the rest of the day off (PTO) I'm still buring it, finally getting close though and will still have appx 40 hrs to carry over.
I've kind of gone back and forth over the DBRs, I think either will make a good DBR, but I have finally decided that the edge goes to JW. Why? because he is in a higher league than Louie. Jimbo has played the political game very well and has the personal connections to really help out our local. Louie will make an excellent DBR once Jimbo decides to move on to greater things. So for now I'll vote for Jimbo. Louie, if you read this don't take it personal, I will likely vote for you in the future, for now keep doing the great job you do as the alternate Chief Steward.
For Negotiating committee, I will vote for John Catalano, Andy Lopez and Dan Aguire. Liz Hunter has done great things for this local and will continue, I hope she doesn't get her feelings hurt. She is a wonderful person. But, Dan is one of those that truely gives. Like I said before, I can think of no one else who gives more of his time to this local and our community that Dan. He deserves a Ben's Bell. He gets my vote for whatever position he wants to run for.
Doug, I just don't see either of the DBR canidates championing our cause about the pay disparity. They will listen to us though. That's why I keep saying that we have to work together, oustie and Unionist, to achieve tht goal. It will require a lot of our personal time and effort. I'm up to it, Are you? We can achieve that goal by the next contract. Maybe no great leap at once, but a slow change that will get us there eventually.
Do I think we are better off now than three years ago? NO, but are we better off now than one year ago? YES. Do I think we'll be better off in two more years than we were three years ago? YES. I don't think Oboma is as much as an Obomanist as you think is he. I belive that he'll help us, the working class too. Just like all things you have to keep it in check, to ensure thatit doesn't turn into Socialism. I really doubt that true Americans would ever let that happen. Besies the Rpublicans spout about liberty, freedom, big government , etc all the time while behind the scenes they work to undermine all that thye espose. Independants and Libertarins (like myself) will keep America safe from both Dems and Reps.
Thanks for an excellent post. Hopefully you can try and keep Zeta grounded. Sorry, you have to much on your plate to take on that job too.
John
I'll bet Doug would agree with me here.
Doug, I hope you and your family all get better soon, hate to see you sick through out the Holidays.
John
Okay, this post has gotten so long, over 200 post by now. The web page rolls over. webMasterson, we need a new post to rant about. I really can't wait to answer the next post.
John
Okay
"I tend to agree with Oustie Zeta". You are obviously way out there too.
"I find it eerie that he is essentially hitting on 2 of his female coworkers and he is married."
Only two? You obviously aren't paying as much of attention to me as I thouhgt. I love em all. My wife know's I have my "girls" (her exact words) they look after me. She's happy for that. Which two have you observed? Princess, yes, a little flirty there, but she has a boyfriend, Unionist too, and he could easily kick my scrawney little ass. I could only hope I could run fast enought to get away from him. But he and I are friends and he know's I like the Princess. He's not in anyway insecure.
You wnat proof? All I have is my knowledge. I've given you the facts. You just choose to ignore them.
Socialist? Those are fighting words buddy. Stale, worn unionst bull crap? Better Union bullcrap than third world bull crap that you'd be living with if it wasn't for UNIONS.
You obviously work in 847 to have made that personal observation about me. Why not show yourself to me? Maybe I can hook you up?
Well, this has been an entertaing morning. I din't get to any of my $ business here, but there is always time for that later, like I said I have the day off.
John, still not hiding in the bushes.
Princess, are you reading this?
John, Your rebuttal to my post proves my point. Thank you. I suspect you received most of your sleep during your classes at ASU. The Zeta moniker I use is a Greek letter to represent one of the letters in my name. I will let you figure that one out, if ever. It’s best you get back to sleep so you can chase all those rogue ousties and illegals in your dreams.
Later… Z
PS
I did my best to tone down the polysyllabic words and limit them to the trisyllabic variety. Oops. My Bad! LOL!
Umm, I'm not quite sure what your rebuttle is here? My time at ASU? Where did you get your education from? Me I personally like to say I have a BS from USMC.
Greek, doesn't surprise me, just as out there as Mr. Klingon. I think most of those Greeks used to like little boys, like you.
So, "Z" is one of the names in your name, what the friggin hell do I care. For me the only reason I'm responding to your little silly assed dribble of a post is for others who might read these. I could really care the fuck about you. To me you are a usless little piece of shit who doesn't know crap about life. You and your kind would never survive the real world.
Me, I sleep fine, like I've said before, you all sleep way to much. I'll bet you have a big old fat belly, eat way to much, and never work out to keep youself in shape.
Me, Yea somteimes I worry that I don't sleep enough, but I really figure that my body will let me know whern it is time to sleep more. Some nights when I only get 2 or 3 hours sleep I get a little edgy by the end of the evening. If I get 5 or 6 I feel much better. After a few nights of 2 or 3, my body makes me get 5 or 6. Must work, I'm still here. I think I might just do an 8 over the holidays (Another UNION fought for benefit) You are such an IDIOT Zeta. And NO, I will not waste my time trying to figure out your little cutsie "name". But, thanks for your stupid post, YOU prove my point.
So "Zeta" are you the little bastard that sent my personal email address (jadrockinw@msn.com) out to the whole world? If, so what the hell? I got a couple of hundred emails (in one day), from everyone that wanted to sell me something, give me something or have me take a survey. Hey, you just might have gotten me a 46" Samsung Plasma TV for free. If I actually get it, I will personally let you know. I hope it arrives in time for the Super Bowl
John, Not hanging out in the stratosphere like Zeta is.
Zeta, you're not posting from work are you? Be very careful here. I only post from home on my time, not the companys. I don't use their computers or time for this crap. If you do, then be careful, because ol Bob Guth from HR will walk your scab ass out, just like he did others of your ilk. HR, The company, doesn't give you a free card or any credit for being an oustie.
Beware, you, like me are being watched.
Just a quick check here before I go off to skeep. I know that's what you all want fore me.
John
Doug,
I have some good answers for you. I really need to wait until after the election results, hopefully tomorrow, too share them.
John
Oh my, do you see what time it is? Did I sleep in or what? Guess that happens sometimes. I'll bet I almost 5 hrs.
Good morning Blogoland. Johnnies hereeeee.
Well, this a bit of a disappoitment. Even though I slept in a little bit, there are no other posts since yesterday, but mine. What's the deal here? Has this once again become John's Blog? Okay, I'll move on. I have a lot of EMAILS to read/purge. I could and probaly will create a new email account, but for the time being I'll keep using this one. Like I said, I'm waiting for that new Plasma TV. I've been told one of our other stewards has some software that will be able to track down who it was that put my email address out there. I'll get with him and check it out. I'd love to be able to thank you personally asshole.
Okay, no sluffing off for me today. Gotta get back to work for three more days, then that's it for the year. Unless they ask for OT during the holidays. Pretty much works out to tripple time, vacation pay plus double time. Just one more thing that you can thank our UNION for.
John, ummm that coffee is good.
I'M STILL WEARING MY BUTTON WHY AREN'T YOU?
John, don't let 2-3 hours of sleep lower your guard. Like someone said before to the others, today you too need to hear. We have a "PG" blog here. Attack peoples ideas, not thier person. This place will turn into a useless mudfight otherwise. Thanks
A member that won't follow directions?
Shocking!
Time for some fun; this is becoming so painfully depressing:
More Shocking Entertainment!
John, hope you get some shut-eye.
a.nony.mouse
I've been told that I make way to many posts here and that I should limit myself to just one complete post.
Anonymous said...
I'M STILL WEARING MY BUTTON WHY AREN'T YOU?
Dec 16, 2009 4:49:00 AM
I was wearing my union buttons long before you started wearing your oustie button.
Anonymous said...
John, don't let 2-3 hours of sleep lower your guard. Like someone said before to the others, today you too need to hear. We have a "PG" blog here. Attack peoples ideas, not thier person. This place will turn into a useless mudfight otherwise. Thanks
Dec 16, 2009 5:58:00 AM
I agree, you make a valid point.
a.nony.mouse said...
A member that won't follow directions?
Shocking!
Time for some fun; this is becoming so painfully depressing:
More Shocking Entertainment!
John, hope you get some shut-eye.
a.nony.mouse
Dec 16, 2009 5:31:00 PM
Good suggestions on killing yourself with electricity. Pick one and try it for yourself.
Oh, forgot my previous reply above.
Must play nicey, nicey. Make it more pleaseant and get drunk first, it won't hurt as much.
John
Anyway, I had breakfast the other morning with our DBR. We discussed your ousties main issue. Pay disparity. He said that we can not take from one group and give to the other, i.e. Assemblers to Cal service & Testers. What we can do is call a level adjustment. It is done all the time with Unions across the country. We come up with a plan and a $ amount. We must use good data to present our case. Then through the Union we present this to the company.
We will have to work together to make this happen. We are in a great position to do that. We have the support of the DBR and several Negotiating committee members, including our newest Dan Aguire.
So, we can now either continue to squabble or we can work on this together. I will work with Doug. We need to meet and get started. Put the past behind and we will be sucessful.
My only post of the night.
John
There we no union buttons because the local was too cheap to hand them out. The buttons showed up after the NOT 933 ones turned up.
He said that we can not take from one group and give to the other, i.e. Assemblers to Cal service & Testers. What we can do is call a level adjustment. It is done all the time with Unions across the country. We come up with a plan and a $ amount. We must use good data to present our case. Then through the Union we present this to the company.
Seriously? So, explain how your union negotiation committees of the past accepted red circling of occupations and individual employees. Right, an artificially-imposed pay cap. Rates for some occupations (those mentioned) were rising TOO fast? Hmmm; seems like that plan is about to backfire!
My recommendation would be $1/hr for cal service & test & 0.15/hr for assembly for first year, second year $0.50/hr for test and another $0.15/hr for assembly.
The pay scales are TOO level between those occupations; that's the pay disparity.
See, with assembly being gone, this factory ran well without them. Now, this is why the technical occupations need a different local, a different union, as their representation.
Maybe we should go talk to the good people at UE as an example. Maybe there's way too much B.S. in IAM to overcome their faults.
Concerning the redlined employee’s and the pay disparity, I suspect that John will reply something along the lines of, “That’s what the Company wanted and not the Union and we had to accept this because of (pick an excuse).” Then he will call it fact and accuse you of not presenting facts. That seems to be the way he operates. However, I have a question for you. Why do we need a union at all? I feel perfectly confident that I can represent myself just as well as all the salaried folks do. Oh, but I am forgetting that the evil company will probably tear my heart out and eat it before I could represent anything. Oh well.
"Anyway, I had breakfast the other morning with our DBR. We discussed your ousties main issue. Pay disparity. "
There are a few major obstacles to making a "level adjustment", but I am willing to work on it if there is something in concrete. Others have chimed in about not taking from one group to give to another. I wont touch that. This addresses one of the big four issues and it's definatly a start to fixing past problems. My senses tell me that we need to widen the review. There are many other classes that also need looking after, not just testers and cal-techs. The technical workforce as a whole needs evalution. What does everyone else think?
Doug - trying out the icecubes in a "flor-de-caña" tumbler.
Good morning,
Once again, I plan on making only one post this morning. Doug had a great suggestion and I will see if it works. Making several posts a night, just turned it into John's ranting blog. That is not why I came here. I came here not to convert, but to reach out and see if we could work together. If we are sucessful and you decide to become a member, that would be great. If not, then so what. If we can accomplish our mission then we will all be the better for it. Now for a few replys to some of your anomomoyus posts.
I got disrupted for a minute, I have another pack rat under the house. For you city dwellers. Pack rats are notorious for chewing up house and home. Sometime you can't even park you car for the weekend whithout them getting into the engine compartment and chewing up the electrical wiring. I've gotten in a vehicle a few times over the years and it won't start. Missed work, only to find that my wiring was all chewed up, gone to make a nest for some pack rat. Anyway I digressed again. I hate Pack rats!!
Part of your post:
"Seriously? So, explain how your union negotiation committees of the past accepted red circling of occupations and individual employees."
I can't esplain, I myself was red circled for about 7 years, it sucks. The Union is only as strong as it's membership is. We have 20% hard core members, then a little over 40% of serious members. After that, depending on circumstances, we will have, at best another 20 to 30% that are wafflers, maybe joing around contract time and then drop out after the contract. Then there are 10% who never join. That is the way it works in a "Right to work for low wages state" If we ever had 90% hard core or serious members, we'd win every time. Once we had that then the other 10% would feel ostrasized and join just to go along and they would still benifit. Red circles, you only accept, what you can't change without some serious support. Red circles are the companys policy. The Union has fought against them at every contract. The company forces them on us, because we are not strong enough to defeat them, because of you. Join us and we can defeat red circles in the future. It would be to late for me personally, but there are still others, a small under represented group, within a lot of occupations that would benifit from it.
John, still having issues with 4096.
Doug, this is till only one post, but it will be in three pieces. I've gotten it down to the one post, but I'm still long winded.
Your recomendations for $1 hr for cal service and 15 cents per hr for assembler are way to low.
we will always work for the basic GWI for all, 3 percent at the least every year. Right now inflation is low, so 3% is great. Then there is the level adjustment I mentioned. There are several other occupations out there that need a correction, but for ease of clarification I wil only talk about the Testers and Cal Service. For Cal service I'm talking an adjustment of $5 to $6 per hour increase, Testers, $2 to $3 per hours. Yes, there needs to be a reason for testers to work towards the cal service occupation. Also, there is a need for an incentive for for retiring Military Cal service tech's to relocate to Tucson. Currently the pay isn't high enough to get them to relocate here, when they can make $10 an hour more in Phoenix. The company can't get Cal tech's or testers off the street here in Tucson, they have to recruit from other places. They know they have to make an adjustment. They have concentrated for to long on combining the assembly work force. But, they have bean counters running this company and even though seasoned managers disagree with them, the bean counters have kept the techies pay at bay. No more. Now is our time. We want it, the Techie managers want it. We just have to get togther , do our home work, present a plan and it will happen. Now, don't think this can be just a Union thing. It will take the Union to present the messsage (negotiating committee), but it will have to be our combined efforts to create, present and lobby for the plan. The negotiating committe, combined with the Techie managers will then present our case to the company. I've been in contact with mangers and they are on board, but it won't work unless WE, lay the ground work, hey, a manger can only do so much. They need our support to make it happen. I'm not talking VSM's here, they are just the bottom layer supervision. I'm talking real department head managers.
Another part of your post:
"See, with assembly being gone, this factory ran well without them. Now, this is why the technical occupations need a different local, a different union, as their representation."
Not true. Period. You need to get off the bashing assemblers, like I've said before, anybody can flip burgers. It takes a lot of skill to build our missiles. It is not the assemblers fault that the company, wanting to combine all of their occupations, moved them all into the highly skilled and paid occupation of prototype. It pissed those Proto folks off too, because they had gone to school and worked for years to achieve that level, then folks like Patti, who sat on her ass, abused FMLA, parks in handicap, walks out every 30 minutes for a smoke, flirts with every swinging dick in the factory the other 30 minutes, gets the same pay as those Proto who worked hard for it. That was the companys way of doing the combining. Get it????
Yea, the 4096 number again.
Thank God for Word. This has been a challange and I'm starting to get how to handle these larger posts. It does take some work though.
No, Techies do not need another Union to represent them, We would still be a minority. What we need is more representaion at the bargaining table. We have now got Dan Aguire, and soon there will be another election to replace Darrin Stafford. Darrin is a great guy, church going,wears his emotions on his shoulder. But Darrin is not a Techie. There will be another Techie who will step up to run against him. If all works out then you will have two techies on the negotiating committee.
(Just to damn bad you will not be able to vote, it's not to late though. If for no other reason, join for now to ensure that you will be able to vote, then see what happens, give it a little time though).
Us techies will be represnted by this Union. The DBR wants this to happen, so that you will know that this Union represnts us techies as well. You will probably be over represented for a few years, that is what is needed though to bring the pay disparity and techies together. I have my work cut out for me for the next few years. Hey, I have other personal issues to work on, but I'm willing to push those into the background for a few years in order to accomplish this. I do not want to make my living off the Union or this company forever. I have other things to do that will bring me personal prosparity. But, because I'm dedicated to this cause (against the will of my wife, she just says forget it and do your own thing) She's not stupid, I'm just hard headed enough to do this for a few years. So, this is our chance, blow it and I will just concentrate on my own plans for prosparity, that doesn't give me near the flack and grief that this does.
Another post:
Why do we need a union at all? I feel perfectly confident that I can represent myself just as well as all the salaried folks do. Oh, but I am forgetting that the evil company will probably tear my heart out and eat it before I could represent anything.
I think I've covered this issue many a time before. Why keep beating the same issue. Look forward, not backwards. Is this the same old
"(this because of (pick an excuse).”
You were looking for from me? Jezz, you still just don't get it.
Part of Doug's post:
There are a few major obstacles to making a "level adjustment", but I am willing to work on it if there is something in concrete. Others have chimed in about not taking from one group to give to another. I wont touch that. This addresses one of the big four issues.
Doug is on board here and makes an intelligent post. Doug knows I'm serious and that we need to work together to make this happen.
Yes, there are major obsticales, but we are at the right time , with a DBR, new negotiator, hopefully another new techie negotiator soon and some serious mangers on our side. Now is our time to make it right. Don't blow this with petty squabbling. Not you Doug.
For those of you who don't know. Doug (the oustie), me (the steward) work together. We had a difficult three years, we've been in each others face several times. We are now putting aside our difference to work together to make this happen.
Doug, I know the main issue "pay disparity" Explain to me tomorrow at work the other three. We will need to address all issues and I will need to be fully informed for that.
Okay, I've kept it to a single post. I'm done for the night. Just about out oftime before I have to leave for Falcon Field and then work. Two friggin weeks off, yea, a great benifit, thank God for Unions.
Good night. I actually started this about two hours ago. It does take a lot of time to try and make your case.
John, this was the final part.
I don't know why you keep complaining and disrespecting specific people, even though you said:
I hope it continues in a respectful way. We can have our differences and keep it civil. I hate those on either side who just get on here and bitch, call names and slander the other side. They really aren't intelligent enough to express their ideas in a thoughtful way. They just spoue their hateful thoughts
I don't work in your area; I don't know who those people are you keep complaining about. I do know that in every area, there are those that abuse the system when it comes to work breaks, smoke breaks and so forth, union and non, salaried and hourly. There are also those who don't abuse the system; show up, do productive work & go home day after day. It's not hard to see, since humans are creatures of habit.
As much as you loathe the thought, as a steward, you were elected as a leader. Yeah, lowest on the food chain, right there next to that VSM and supervisor, as you've mentioned in past postings.
Do you personally admonish any of the members for those sorts of actions, or do you just let it go, as it's management's job?
Union Steward
Monitor and enforce the provisions of the collective bargaining agreement (labor contract) to ensure both the firm and union worker are not violating the terms of the agreement.
Seems like the same problem that VSM's have with control, union stewards do as well. Therefore, your complaints about them and supervision not doing their job? Seems like the same complaint could be registered against stewards as well.
There can only be one master to rule them all, right? Are you and other stewards willing to do that? If not, the complaint is void.
It's 7:00; time to work.
From my post last night.
"Doug, I know the main issue "pay disparity" Explain to me tomorrow at work the other three. We will need to address all issues and I will need to be fully informed for that."
I just wanted to capture that so I will remember to get an answer.
God, I hate it when folks use your own words against you. You didn't get the point, I wasn't really trying to bash. It took me a minute to figure out what you were posting about, then I remembered Patti. Yea, I guess I did bash her. I should have left her name out of this. I'm sure she is a nice person, just takes advantage of everything. I just used her to make a point. My bad. I appoligize. I will try not to villify another going forward. Please feel free to call me on it again.
You are right, the majority of folks, Union, Non-Union, Salaried come to work day after day , do their jobs and go home to their families.
Yes, stewards are low on the chain just like VSMs are. VSMs are paid way better for it, stewards make nothing and it actually costs $ to be a steward, since you are expected to attend meetings, do volunteer work, etc all on your own time using your own resourses. Now I'm not bitching about that. I signed up for the job very well knowing those conditions. There are good VSMs (Skipper)and bad VSMs (Guidance), (notice how I left out names). Good stewards and bad stewards. Bad stewards usually get replaced. I like to think I'm a good steward. I try at least to be so. I certainly do monitor the terms of the contract and ensure that everyone is playing by the rules. That is my primary job as a steward. There is another who will find that out very soon. I have told that hourly person that if their behavior continues, that I will pull their records and call his supervisor on not following the terms of the contract.
I have admonished my peers for inappropriate behavior, but that is not my role, that is a role for the VSM. I should not have to do their job, as I said they get paid to do it, not me.
I've personally been in the very uncomfortable position where one area I'm charged with is getting away with breaking certain rules, policies, that another area is getting disciplined for. I let the more generous manager know that they are violating some company policy or union contract. Then they have to crack down, do their job. When they do the managers usually tell their people that the steward made them do it. So, then those members complain to me about it, say the Union screwed it all up for them, etc. This is one of those situations that you are damned if you do and damned if you dont. Rock and a hard spot. Because the others will bash you if you keep a blind eye to it and I've wanted to do that at times, but can't.
Your post:
"There can only be one master to rule them all, right? Are you and other stewards willing to do that? If not, the complaint is void."
Stewards are not masters. Enforcing company policy is the VSMs role. Stewards enforce the terms of the contract and provide assistance and guidance to the bargaining unit, both Union and Non-Union. We get bashed by members for protecting non members all the time. But our job is to enforce the terms of the contract, Period.
John, the good steward, I hope.
Hey, one post and under 4096. I'm getting there. Oh, guess I blew it with this post.
John
God, I hate it when folks use your own words against you.
Well, I'll just do it again, since you enjoy it so much.
I certainly do monitor the terms of the contract and ensure that everyone is playing by the rules. That is my primary job as a steward.
....and....
There is another who will find that out very soon. I have told that hourly person [union member?] that if their behavior continues, that I will pull their records and call his supervisor on not following the terms of the contract.
....and....
I have admonished my peers for inappropriate behavior, but that is not my role, that is a role for the VSM. I should not have to do their job, as I said they get paid to do it, not me.
Yet, you stated...
I let the more generous manager know that they are violating some company policy or union contract. Then they have to crack down, do their job. When they do the managers usually tell their people that the steward made them do it. So, then those members complain to me about it, say the Union screwed it all up for them, etc. This is one of those situations that you are damned if you do and damned if you dont.
I've heard managers the very same thing. So, even though you claim it's 'their job', you're just as happy to step in and assist, being a real team-player after all!
So, a steward is a non-paid manager, then. Part of training to be supervision in some cases?
I'll let you have the last word in this discussion. Time to leave and visit family for a few days is soon approaching.
That's good, this is definatley the time of year for family. Mine are a long ways away, I will visit with them this year, I'll get to see my first grand daughter. Yea, I'm Grampa Steward now. We are all not so much different.
Yea, you copied my posts, but are stewards really non paid spervisors? Not really. Supervisors direct, we do not, we enforce the contract and give advice. Along the way we get a lot of crap, but once in awhile we actually fix a wrong and people are overjoyed. Of couse, a few weeks later, some will say, what has the Union ever done for me? I've learned that is just the way it is. I'm not sure what drives me to be a steward, I just do it. It's in my genes.
Well, let's take this time to rest a little. we have a lot of work ahead of us. we'll need to be fresh, our first meeting will be a little tense, but I believe we will work through that. We will come up with a plan and it will get presented to the company. They will agree to it. As long we stand together. Enough said for tonight.
John, I really wish you all a very Merry Christmas. Uhrahhha
Hey, I slept in to nearly 3 am this morning. A little groogy eyed from all that sleep. No new posts for me to write about. Thats good, tells me that everyone is enjoying their time off and don't need to waste their time reading ol John's rants.
I do hope that after this Christmas break, that we will get together and start working on that plan to present to the company. I need your help. I can not do it alone.
Doug, use your data, but it needs to be simplified for a manager to digest. Maybe an engineer could understand it but, presented the way you have it now, it will be way over the head of most managers.
Zeta, ah, what the hell. You'll never get it. Do Do Do Do
Zeta's buddy in 847, did you see me flirting with Princess again? I'm still wondering who the other one is though. I told my wife about your post, she laughed about it. You are so unenlightened.
Well I must remember to be nicey, nicey. Being nicey, nicey is not really in my nature. I like to call things the way I see them and don't really care much for all the PC crap. I belive Zeta (the closet liberal) mentioned something about me having dreams about illegals. Dems, Rep and Unions want them, I don't. Me I'd round up every one of their sorry asses and ship them back to their homelands. I would not care if the liberal media showed their weeping eyes on TV every night, crying about how they will miss their loved ones who were sent home. Well go back home and be with them. They, and we should hold their corrupt little leaders accoutable for their lack of prosparity. We have worked hard in this country and thanks to Unions, we do enjoy a little bit of that prosparity. You ousties work to undermine all that we Unionists have done over several generations. Otherwise we wouldn't have that illegal problem here, would we? I say put predator drones on the border. Nukes in the Middle East. Doug's solution to the energy crisis, a big fucking parabolic reflector in the sands of Saudi. I do mean one BIG reflector, Nuke and sand will create that. Those bastards took down our towers. Okay, digressing again.
Well. sleep tight, enjoy the holidays. To me it's not "Happy holidays" it's"Merry Christmas" more of that PC crap I can't stand and will not follow.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, keep the Christ in Christmas, that is truely what it is all about.
John
Zeta, just a thought.
Get it?
Johnnie's back.
Okay, now you are really disappointing me here now, a whole friggin day without any posts? Tis the season, but really? Guess I'll have to work now, thank you very much.
John, Ho Ho Ho Ho
"Arbeit Macht Frei"
"Arbeit Macht Frei"
Johns new mantra? I think it should be "Reinheit ist am besten"
It has been pointed out to me that an entirely new Post is here, so this is the last night I will post on this blog post. Don't despair, I will be at the new post for you.
My favorite Movie of all time is on TV tonight, Forest Gump. So, it is distracting me a little. I'm not sure why I like this movie so much, but I do.
I won't even bother replying to your last post.
John
do.
"Anonymous said...
"Arbeit Macht Frei"
Dec 21, 2009 7:48:00 AM"
Your Post:
Really,do you believe using a Nazi phrase wil set your free? Dude, this is the internet, I can look up anthing.
Anonymous said...
"Arbeit Macht Frei"
Johns new mantra? I think it should be "Reinheit ist am besten"
Part of your post:
"Reinheit ist am besten"
It dosen't matter, you're speaking NAZI crap again and i will not go look for it. Ah shit, you might as well be speaking Frasi here. Just some more terrorist bull crap. Unions are pure American, Obviously your are not. Your're just a Nazi bag O shit.
Some more Nazi crap.
This is a little errie, not sure why any American would quote a copouple of Nazi poss
Dec 21, 2009 8:07:00 AM
D'ya think our web steward might have a slight problem?
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