While the spirit of cooperation is tested by time, we watch and wonder. Is there only one Steward?
Two weeks ago, a couple of Ousties went to the TTT and had a good breakfast and an inspiring talk with Union Leadership. Word is that they walked out of there on pretty good terms, and they had agreed to have another meeting sometime in February. We wait for word when and where that meeting will be. This step points toward fixing the biggest problem that non union workers have with the Union responsible for their representation. But meanwhile we have watched a drama unfold before our eyes while reading the comments here, regarding the one steward who started it all. Has anyone noticed the peculiar absence of other stewards input? Where is the support?
The Ousties by a large margin do not present a unified voice over the questions that face them now, and many different voices have dished out their dissatisfaction to the conversation developing on this blog. Different views are posted here from a group that say they stand against the Union. Some are willing to cooperate with the Union for a chance at improvement. Others state that this viewpoint is naïve. They fire off volleys at the one steward who has come here to represent his side of the discussion. While that steward is obviously under duress, who has come to his aid? Is there another steward who will step up to the plate and take up his cause while this brother steward fights the demons that plague him?
With an obviously inferior number of Ousties, a number of them come here to voice their views, and add to the dialogue. Will the rest of the stewards stand by and watch this drama unfold without lifting a hand? The workers are watching. Are there stewards willing to take up the flag that John carried to champion reform at the Union, while fighting us for its very existence. Who is willing to help him fight for the changes that he sees are needed? Who’s got his six?
73 comments:
The answer is umm.....no. No one from this union will take up any flag or do anything. Why? Because they are all imbecilic misfits like the alcoholic John whose rambling rants are barely coherant. We really need decertification in one way or another of local 933. If decertification is not possible, then we need to invite another union in. I don't see anything changing with this union. It has been a rotten apple for too long and to quote Ron White, "You can't fix stupid."
Don't expect to much from this union. They are to busy recruiting new suckers for their collective. They got to keep those numbers up. John is a statistic to them. It is apparent John's problem has gone on for a long time with no intervention from his fellow comrades. Most people would help out a fellow workmate in trouble however this union and it's figureheads have abandoned him. I bet none of these clowns even took the time for a personal visit to see if he needed anything. Watson?
A few observations. The jist of the Ousties was to force the unions' hand by a decert threat. Nice run,but no cigar. There wasn't enough support on petitions for fear of union retaliation, which would have been null if the petitions were there. That would have a finality to union threat. Now you suggest a new union? With out a visable show of support? I can't imagine the threats that would fly during that "pledge drive"!
So, as long as there seems to be some willingness on the unions part to at least hear this side of the story, and there are 3 years to test the waters, it seems a waste of time to name call and posture. Why not at least give them the chance to pick up the gauntlet that's been thrown at their feet and see where it goes? No, it won't happen overnite, it took how many years to get it this far off? The name calling and belligerent attitude only shows your unwillingness to let them either prove their earnestness or deceit.
As for John, I pray his demons diminish, and that he can join the discusion again. He was on the right road to open dialog.
Jimbo, any comment??
The name calling and belligerent attitude only shows your unwillingness to let them either prove their earnestness or deceit.How much time should there be until the bluff is called?
The Union has an opportunity here. They faced a threat and won. They also see how many workers they cant recruit because of their mistaken ways. The Ousties want things the workers asked for. John discovered the Union would be better off adopting the Ousties ideas than by fighting them.
So with the new union would outside people be the officials or the same ones that ran 933. If it is the ones that ran 933 what is the logic of have a different union with the same people running it?
You need people in there that look out for your interests, this 933 is a assemblers union pure and simple.
John discovered the Union would be better off adopting the Ousties ideas than by fighting them.
Possibly because he'd benefit as well??
The company would have dumped the union in 06 if they wanted to.
Guess what.......
The company did not.....
Why is that??
$$$$$$$$
Come in as a custodian, take a few classes and become an assembler.
Bam! Now you have a semiskilled worker.
No visits to Tech schools trying to recruit skilled talent.
No negitiating wages individually for skilled talent.
No paying premium wages for skilled talent.
No having to fatten up surpervision to manage and perform performance reviews on skilled talent.
People from the outside don't want to work at RMS because the starting wages are so low....
The money instead goes to hiring more engineers.
The folks that started this are skilled talent. They deserve more.
The union should either help the talent or let them go.
Dump the learners programs. Brother in law gives Joe the answers to the test to pass. Accellerated classes done by the company and union are a joke.
These two things are slowly degenerating the workfore into truly a bunch of semiskilled apes.
So, what can we do that will help in 2010? These ideas are not possible. Not at this time. And now that Joe passed the test, what do you propose? Do you have a pragmatic solution that works for all?
Idea? Big layoff? Clear the place out & start over gain?
Wait until tomorrows news is on the street.
Lots of good discussion here. It is all good. Yes John has demons. they call it PSTD, it is not from Marine combat. Hell that was funnnn. It is from childhood. We make our ways through life. Mine was very difficult. I had accepted and moved on. Well, that worked for me. No complaints. Then stress become overbearing and a she bitch pushed you aginst the wall. She bitch LIED. This bitch then uses everything against you. she's done it before at Rita. Always a married steward. intresting, eh. Why the company does nothing except persecute the steward I don't know.
Let me make it more clear. I have an attorney and now a PI. things are moving forward. THis little tangled web of decet and persecution will end soon. Johnnie will be back, vindicated and those resposible for all the lies and deception will pay dearly. God said vengence is mine, but somebody has to get the ball rolling. I will have my day soon and most of those know it. I never, I repeat n
ever back down.
I was ready to just say fuck it, I don't need this job and all of it's shit. Phsyc said, John you have PSTD, not from Marines, but from childhood. All managers, supervisors and so so say he's a damn good worker, we want him back. Keep it together. Let those others deal with work issues. Right now we gotta get you straight. Okay I believe. So I will get help. Next week I'll go to a place for 2 or 3 days and they will deal with my issues. then couseling, most likely for years.
I will let the Union and my attorney deal with all the other shit.
First squash Marana restraint. Then sue certain folks for defamation of character. Then dig down and sue Marana PD, Pima SHeriffs and RAYTEHON. Bottom line. I will be back very soon. Perhaps head a little clearer.
I will be able to write a book about this. You don't know all, there has been so many intresting injusteses here. Somebody is connected here at Raytheon and Marana. Justice will prevail because I will never back down.
You go through this shit and you find out who your true friends are. I have been attacked and defamed at every level. Marriage, facebook, work, etc. I have been arrested. locked up with looneys all without warrants or miranda.I have had my home broken into, my credit cards attacked, my phone ringing endlessly with offers. My credit cards charged for things I never ordered. Yes, it can get so very deep.Still you hold the course. Soon it will be payback, legally. HR watch out. You knew her history, still you chose to harras another Union steward. Seems she bitch, likes married and stewards. All before have been so. They know, but let her continue. This morning a PI that I hired will investigate my truck issue. Yes, it hasn't moved for two days because of suspicious activity. We'll see so very soon. All of the professionals that they sent me to have agreed, sure he's a bomb ready to explode. get him treatment, but others have set him up. My day is coming. I will not be the judege or the executioner. I will let the legal system consume them. I will be so very much rewarded finacially for it. Lawyer will make alot of $$$ too.They will pay for it all in the end. Yes, it has cost me a lot of $$ for retainers and time. I will get all of that back and more.
Now for the Union shit. I do not know about other stewards. Most don't know what is going on. It is not like we went out and tried to recruit all stewards for this taxk. Just keep it close for now. Ousties and me have asked all concerned to send a representive. Not much there either. Most like to bitch and do nothing when the opportunity comes to fix. They are just big blogger mouths. Put hte steward down. Hey, put up or shut up.
This steward, the Oustie at the Rally and one more oustie., the union leadership. stood up and are held accountable. Time for crap talk on the blog is over. We will meet again very soon. Now is the time to make your point. so come, or stay home and whine.
Enough said.
John
Once again there seems to be more bitching than anything else here. Sounds like you want something for free. Like you feel it should just be given to you on a silver platter.
Join the Union and get involved in your futures!!!! If all you do is bitch and expect others to take care of you, good luck with that.
Once again, nothing is free. It takes hard work and dedication to get involved and do something about your futures. But you "ousties" don't seem to get that. I am reading again about people wanting another union in here. It hasn't worked for you in the past, so do you really think it'll work again???????
Get involved and take your futures into your own hands. If you are not involved, you have not yet earned the right to bitch about things.
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!
Not so fast Jeff. Let the Ousties and the Union work together first. Let them solve differences. Until that happens, the perceptions won’t change. To tell workers to join the union they quit with cause will fall on deaf ears. Those who quit the Union did so because of obvious problems. Suggest this Union address with the Ousties to gain the confidence of all the workers by fixing thee problems. Anything else is just moaning on your part. And lack of action will cause the disenfranchised to start protesting gain. So it’s best to first put things in order. Only that will result in increased support.
Okay Tater tot. Decert your stupid remarks. Not alcoholic, just me. Can't drink enought tro slow the time enough to just enjoy.
Yes, they do, several times a day. They are real, how about you?
Jimbo is always there for me and us. Who do you think asked? They are just ventingthe last hatred. It all has to come out before we win, it's that simple. free. thank you for your prayers. GOD Bless. My demons have left, I hope.
whos's bluffing now?
"The Union has an opportunity here. They faced a threat and won. They also see how many workers they cant recruit because of their mistaken ways. The Ousties want things the workers asked for. John discovered the Union would be better off adopting the Ousties ideas than by fighting them."
Muy bien mi amigo, se obtiene. Tater tot, también.
It is always the same people, most just are complacient.
We all benifit. me I've already gotten my reward.
Apeman, monkey.
"As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!"
Jeff was the first, I just followed. free
Most who quit the Union and crossed the line have come back. thye quit because of fears, med, beni, retirement, etc. Orinal non meembers , the "Ousties" did cross because of their belief. I believe misguided, but that is only my opinion.
I speak my mind, it is a simple message. I'm not sure I even want to come back. I really don't need to, it actually costs me more losses $$$ to come back and to post here.
Just the drunken fool steward, john.
Once again, the "blame something because I'm this way!" syndrome.
John, I'm sorry that your demons are getting to you, but at this point, you may be hurting your cause more than you think.
Jeff is clueless again. He has his IAM approved blinders on and will not see that this union is a assemblers union and always will be. This union is broken and will not repair its ways for that main issue. The unhappy SKILLED workforce will always exist as an ever growing cancer on this atrophied union body. How can Jeff call us whiners when he is not here to experience the problem first hand by himself? This happy union ideal you chant may work great for you in Socialist California however in Arizona where people are free willed this unionist ideal will always remain a broken Marxist concept. John you and your other so called right wing republicans or libertarians should educate yourself on the Marxist philosophy you embrace. You union people are such hypocrites.
"Anonymous said...
Once again, the "blame something because I'm this way!" syndrome.
John, I'm sorry that your demons are getting to you, but at this point, you may be hurting your cause more than you think.
Jan 28, 2010 4:19:00 AM"
That was your post. Okay, that is the way yoy feel. still you don't GET it. Period. My cause is just a cause. It involves the Union, but that is only a part. I speak my mind exactly the way I want to speak. Now if you, hte Union or whoever don't like it , fuck it. I will only answer or take a step back from GOD. Belive me even Union leadership has said , hey ,cool down some. Iwill stop posting here in a second if asked by certain Union leaders. But, until then I will post my thoughts. Don't friggin worry about my deamonds. Most just submit to theirs and think all is fine, a little borig now and then.Me I get right back into Demons face ans swa FU. That is the difference here. Ill tell the devil to Fuck off.You me and every other swing dick here have our deamons. We all just handle them differently. Sorry Superbia, this is not Disney channel.
John
Marxist ideals, hey fool. This country is founded on exactly the dame ideals as this Union. It is called Representaion. Shithead. Assemblers Union. sure they are the majority, that is why thecompany has catered to them. Look at the leadership dude. How many assemblers there? very few. IMost are techies, whips and material. the few, assemblers like Cha, Cha have fire.You still don't get it. I try, I will not convince all. But I bet I've already convinced enough to take a step bakc and reevaluate. Like Dougie said. Like it or not, we have 3 years. Take a stand, show at the next Ousie/ union breakfast and see where it leads.
Now I haven't heard a thing from ouster leadersstubbs. I passed theball to him in fairness to pick the next breakfast. It was supposed to happen around one month later. So I will wait only one more week, if He doesn't man up and pick a date, then I will. It will never be posted this time as to date, time and location. It will be through word ofmoth.I will not wait another 2 frigggin months.
Jeff know. sure not the local, all is the same.
John
Time for a reunion 8am on 13 Feb. The place will be announced by our team players. See you there.
Question: What do people do when they do not like the direction their elected officials are going?
Answer: They vote them out the first chance they get.
It doesn't matter whether it's a local, state or national election. It's what we all do.
Do people just sit back and bitch about how bad this senator/congressman/mayor/governor or whatever is????? NO! They go out an vote to elect someone else that they hope will do the job.
So, why should the local union politics be any different????? The local has more influence in what your wages and benefits are but you fail to become members to elect officials that will help fix what you see as an issue. WTF??????
If those people that are most pissed off are not getting involved, then they should get what they get and not throw a fit.
If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
It won't hurt, I promise. Just get involved!!!!!
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!
This sight was more interesting when angry John the Steward was going off on his drunken rants. Good to see that he might be getting some help for his anger issues. As for our elected officials, if a certain group gets catered too, they will usually keep voting for that person our party. Since the assemblers seem to have it good they vote for the inf=dividual that keeps giving them the things they want, more money. So the same people usually get re-elected. Kinda like the democrate party, cater to specific groups and you ensure they keep voting for you.
Hey, the angry drunken steward is always around. Whether I choose to post ot not. FU
Or is ithat the angry drunken steward?
If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
Jeff, I promise that you (and your ilk) are part of the problem. Ousties had a solution (get rid of IAM) that has failed so far.
It won't hurt, I promise. Just get involved!!!!!
How? By automatically believing the union way is the right way? Again, you have no idea of how f'd up our situation is. This is why we do what we do.
When comments such as these are made:
"The place will be announced by our team players."
then it's hard to know if others are allowed to 'join the team'. I know I don't want to play on the union team!
The Ousties have not joined the Union. If you engage your brain while reading this blog, you would understand that. The ONLY way we will improve your working situation is for both sides to cooperate right now. It's U.S. law. Ranting about it wont change it. Fact Check: There were not enough signatures in the petition. Another one is not allowed for three years. If you would like to help identify the problems and bring workable solutions, to participate in constructive dialogue, fine. But don't come in with guns blazing and insulting it all. Willie meant "contact an Oustie for more info." John didn't want the "where" released openly. Any other questions?
Jeff said,
"Do people just sit back and bitch about how bad this senator/congressman/mayor/governor or whatever is????? NO! They go out an vote to elect someone else that they hope will do the job.
So, why should the local union politics be any different????? The local has more influence in what your wages and benefits are but you fail to become members to elect officials that will help fix what you see as an issue. WTF??????"
The terms are staggered such that the "controling party" are always holding majority seats. I've known a few who have tried ,without success, to break up the stagnation and were soundly put in their place.
As someone pointed out, YOU AIN'T HERE!! And we ARE "getting involved" in the only feasable way.
If the current players,John, Jimbo, and the Ousties, can maintain, then our point will have been made.
Your inflamatory remarks just keep missin' the mark!
But thanks for the input.
John, I hope your troubles come to an end soon,for your sake. You seem to have a lot to offer as a buffer in our talks and in your job. It would be a tragedy for it all to go up in flames over a setup.
Stay tuned in.
An open invite to all: If you have LEGITIMATE ideas or suggestions for the next meeting, now is the time to post. If you know of someone with a good idea, but no access to internet, post it for them!
We have their ears, NOW is the TIME to put our cards on the table. If they are willing to hear us out, let's bring on the facts!
This can work for both sides!
Why not invite them to the meeting. All have a vested interest.
All are welcome,ousties and others, with ideas, no attitudes. Preferable representatives. Someone will need to call me with the location.
John
Kind of interesting. You say all are invited yet you will not post where the meeting will be held. How am I to get to the meeting when I don't know any ousties to tell me where the damn meeting is?
Send a request to the webmaster at iam933dotnet. They can get you the info you need. What classification are you in? What can you bring to the table? Can you argue that your job is under represented? Bring information that supports your claim. Lets right a decades old wrong. See you there!
You also have a network. That's how it really should be handled. How do you know who I am if I send a request to the webmaster? I can pretend to be anyone. Both the Union and the Ousties have networks, use them.
Crao, even I don't know. Perhaps Doug or Willie will let me know via email or phone.
John
48 hours and not one post?
Amazing....
I guess people see where this is really going. If they were going to get this done for us, they would have done it a long time ago just because you rattled the decert saber doesn't mean that they are going to roll over like a little kitty to have its stomach scratched and get this done. Sure they will go through the motions but when it comes time to get in front of the company negotiators either they are going to say NO, no discussion
or what giveaways do you have that we want (senority, staggered workweeks, passthroughs for everything...etc.
Unionism is a good concept if you have low or no skill, low intellect, and marginal aspirations in your life. Don't forget prior convictions with the law. Right union leadership? This meeting is just a union monkeyshine to placate the hourly.
I for one will not be attending. I believe that this is just the union trying to weed out the ousties and get an idea of how large our group really is. Why else would it be a big secret as to where it is at? Once they have all the names, we are toast. We hold the moral high ground. We have not trashed anyones cars in the parking lots. We have threatened no one. The other side has and I believe they still are.
OUSTIES BEWARE!!!!!!!
Interesting post..." If they were going to get this done for us, they would have done it a long time ago just because you rattled the decert saber doesn't mean that they are going to roll over like a little kitty ..."
This tactic might buy time, but would only postpone the inevitable repeat performance by the Ousties. Everybody knows you are pissed off. They know they don’t have the luxury to ignore you now. The threat is real. Their own members and stewards admit it. They stand to benefit most by adopting our ideas.
This meet is not just for Ousties and Union. For those who fear retribution; there are others who will fill in the ranks. This isn't a fight anymore. This is an effort to fix what's been broke for many years. We must give them a chance to fix things. Results will determine our next agenda.
It's a trap!
Even those people who would drop by and argue incessantly here have all left as well.
The weeds are beginning to sprout from the cracks in the sidewalks around this place.
It's like Ruby, Arizona!
Fear not scared ones. I'm still here and reading. There is just nothing new to post. I've pretty much said it all a few times. I will not just keep repeating myself against rants. Got a legimate question? I will respond.
John
Meh. Ain't skeered.
Your post:
Anonymous said...
Meh. Ain't skeered.
Feb 12, 2010 5:21:00 AM
And you should not be.
John
Wait - so, let's think about this.
We can't have an open dialogue or an open mind when it comes to expelling this union, but we have to have an open mind when it comes to working and collaborating with this union? WTF??
You, John, with all of your problems, are the last swinging d!<k to lecture me about intelligence or anything else!
I use your words against you because it's effective; see how it's fueled your issues here? How smart was it to post your whole life story here in one easily-accessed location. It was written here some time ago "the Internet is forever", wasn't it?
Perhaps a psychiatrist would be an effective first step toward solving your issues.
Announcement: The meeting is postponed for one week, until the 20th of February. Too many attendees of the first meeting can't make this one.
TheOustee@TheRally
You think that is my whole life story, it is just a taste. I post that way, because I want you and all others to know I have more serious matters to attend to than this. So, when I post here it is that I care deeply that we all make it work. I won't be around much. I could just drop this and it really wouldn't matter to me. But, I belivein finishing what I start. It is that simple. I love the simple things.
Just this weekend they stold my new Driod, my new gun, but those are replaceable. Who did it? I know for sure the sheriff stold my new gun. I saw the guy who stold the Driod, I mad e eye contact with him. He smiled. I did too. He hasn't had the opportunity to use it. I closed that phone down fast on him. Sure it will cost me $$ to replace, but they didn't get to use it.
John
Something John should consider...
message for john
Who is the last swinging duck here? Regardless of my troubles, I'm only a messanger.
Oh, I feel the love dude
"Oh, I feel the love dude"
Yeah, bet ya do.
The meeting that was scheduled for the 13th, then got postponed till the 20th is postponed again, untill the 27th. Saturday at 8:00 AM, same place.
TheOustie@TheRally
Are we now going down the slippery slope of apathy and indifference?
No we are not. We are giving an opportunity to fix things. Patience Grasshopper.
Hard to tell by reading here.
First you call for a meeting on the 13th, then postponed it. Then the meeting for the 20th got postponed. I bet you push back the one for the 27th too. The union is not going to do anything but waste your time.
"The union is not going to do anything but waste your time."
Great statement. To the point and accurate. They are pulling the wait game just like they did to the company during 2006 strike. They are playing the ousties for fools just like they do to their membership.
Remember this union lacks credibility and honor.
Right John?
"... Just what did happen at that first meeting?"
Nice thing you ask. We got to show the facts, the stats, and the reasons we fought. They accepted some of our documents and reviewed them with us. They had to look at some old contracts to see we brought the truth.
The Union brought their own set of facts and reality to us, so we can comprehend the difficlty of working within the confines of negotiations. Clearly both sides know something the other doesn't.
This is not easy to do folks. It takes balls, brains, and patience. But all of us who went are willing to work for this. They can't just play us for fools. That won't help them. It's not hopey changey stuff. It's hard work. Wanna join? Bring your brain, some stats, and leave the attitude.
They agree we can help. Will you?
Or will you just throw stones?
Anon. Feb 8, 2010 10:40:00 PM
"This tactic might buy time, but would only postpone the inevitable repeat performance by the Ousties. Everybody knows you are pissed off. They know they don’t have the luxury to ignore you now. The threat is real. Their own members and stewards admit it. They stand to benefit most by adopting our ideas."
Then, explain why these sorts of grumblings were heard as far back as 2003, they were summarily ignored?
Anon. Feb 20, 2010 9:13:00 PM
"The Union brought their own set of facts and reality to us, so we can comprehend the difficlty of working within the confines of negotiations."
A tenuous relationship at best. There is no way that the higher up's in the union hierarchy are going to allow this to continue without the committment of the non-members to join. I gotta say Jeff is probably right on this one (small) detail. Your ideas and conversation will be tolerated, then there will be a point when you're not going to get to play anymore.
"This is not easy to do folks. It takes balls, brains, and patience. But all of us who went are willing to work for this. They can't just play us for fools. That won't help them."
Really? To some of us, that might be the beginning of that play happening right now?
Please re-read that first paragraph. Holding true to those ideals isn't an 'attitude'.
“Then, explain why these sorts of grumblings were heard as far back as 2003, they were summarily ignored?”
No grumblers from 2003 got anybodies attention like the Ousties did. There was nothing to ignore. Who posted websites? Who propagated a petition? Who stood up in the face of anger? Who else dared wear orange? We did it, and it can’t be ignored.
"The Union brought their own set of facts and reality to us…..
A tenuous relationship at best. There is no way that the higher up's in the union hierarchy are going to allow this to continue without the committment of the non-members to join.”
You missed the triple lutz. The Union is in business at RMS. They sell a service to the workers (customers). By satisfying the needs of the Ousties, it serves their best interest. Workers at RMS have the free choice to join or not to join. The Union wants unopposed recruiting. We want them to fulfill an obligation to workers who won’t join because they are not happy with past representation. The goal is mutually inclusive. Therefore, they want to continue because this holds the key to increased customer satisfaction.
This thread has been posted for almost a whole month. Can you count how many stewards came to fill in for John? Zero! Good showing LL933! Is the top comment strangely prophetic?
So is it true the union is responsible for postponing the meeting? Isn’t it apparent that this action should be a clue to the few hopeful ousties that the union could care less about what they have to say? And another good point brought up in this blog: why is it only John the steward in his drunken rant and some outsider unionist Jeff the only individuals defending this pathetic union. The next meeting if it does happen will still be a discussion about the same old complaints with the same old non committal answers. It is true the union is a business and as a “non profit” business with profit in mind they will take action to any suggestions by those outside of their clique. To the ousties at the meeting; I think there are better individuals that I would rather have a morning breakfast with. Let’s keep the momentum going and oust this union. Problem solved!
Correction:
It is true the union is a business and as a “non profit” business with profit in mind they will NOT take action to any suggestions by those outside of their clique.
"The Union brought their own set of facts and reality to us, so we can comprehend the difficlty of working within the confines of negotiations. Clearly both sides know something the other doesn't."
So what did the union bring to the original meeting? What facts and reality did they bring that shed light on our plight and how they are not responsible for it? I don't know but I think this may be stretching the truth since this is the first mention that the union did anything except listen to your ranting at the meeting.
Maybe you should come there and see. If its bogus, make the call. But don't insinuate that something didn't happen just because nobody reported it to you.
Impatience with meeting postponements is a growing concern. Lets not postpone further.
What facts and reality did they bring that shed light on our plight and how they are not responsible for it? I don't know but I think this may be stretching the truth since this is the first mention that the union did anything except listen to your ranting at the meeting.
Go read the anon post on the previous thread with the timestamp Jan 13, 2010 11:24:00 AM.
It's all speculation, written by someone who was not at the meeting, but I'd be willing to wager not far from the truth.
There's yet to be a full accounting from either side on what transpired at that breakfast.
The Oust movement seemed to be predicated on clear and open communications with all who were interested. Now that some are in a cooperative effort with the leadership of this inept labor organization, why has that transparency begun to cloud up?
"The Oust movement seemed to be predicated on clear and open communications with all who were interested. Now that some are in a cooperative effort with the leadership of this inept labor organization, why has that transparency begun to cloud up?"
Very good question! I can't fully satisfy your question here. What transpired is what we've said before. This is not some mystery drama. The union wanted to know what we had to say. We brought data, charts, and graphs showing our position. They explained to us how the negotiating process works, and some of the methods they use to cut through layers of negotiations. But there was no magic here.
We agreed that both sides are intereted in working this out. It is in everyone's best interest. If the people saying that it's all a F.L.O.C. are right, we'll cross that road if we get there. You are not wrong to worry about it. But at the same time, those of us who went, feel like we're getting critisized for attempting to resolve this. We are trying the good faith and hard work method.
Do you have solutions that both sides can live with? Because it's going to take that kind of thinking. If all we are going to do is union-bash, then we are not going to solve anything anytime soon. Destruction is easy, construction is not.
TheOustie@TheRally
The union wanted to know what we had to say. We brought data, charts, and graphs showing our position.
Yet they brought what in turn?
They explained to us how the negotiating process works, and some of the methods they use to cut through layers of negotiations. But there was no magic here.
Negotiation methods? Give-and-take? Simple high-school debate club tactics? You're right; no magic, yet no substance, that I can see. Anyone else reading this?
We agreed that both sides are interested in working this out. It is in everyone's best interest.
Of course this was agreed to. I think choices were made a while ago that made this a foregone conclusion.
You are not wrong to worry about it. But at the same time, those of us who went, feel like we're getting criticized for attempting to resolve this. We are trying the good faith and hard work method.
With the megabytes of diatribe spewed here in this blog for the past few years, how that conclusion is reached is beyond my comprehension. The level of criticism, justified or not, is little more than talking points. There are still those who feel the original goals are obtainable.
Still, this kumbaya moment seems to be fleeting with each passing week. Your 'growing concern' should be an outrage by now. Believe me, "told ya so" will ring hollow in the minds of those who participated and won't need to be uttered by those who can.
Okay,
I've listened to enough of your dribble. I still read all of these posts. You are now defiling your own oustie leaders who are trying to get what you say you want. Guess what, you don't want it. You just want to keep on ranting. You are a very big Dumbass. Bring yourself down to the breakfast, talk your fucking crap to me in my face. See what you get asshole.
Or, if you truely want to make things better, then come on down with some constructive ideas for some open dialog with union folks and ousties who are really trying to get the best for ALL of us.
John
I know webmaster, a family type of dialog, but sometimes they just piss you off.
Well, look what the crawled up out of the desert! Our PSTD steward said...
I've listened to enough of your dribble. I still read all of these posts.
D R I V E L
You are now defiling your own oustie leaders who are trying to get what you say you want.
Defiling? "to make impure; to make dirty."
Two words in three sentences that make no sense in the context you wrote them in. English is your native language? Welcome back, John!
Oh, by the way, there are no "Oustie Leaders" Oust933 IamNOT933 Blog Nothing mentioned in these about 'leadership' that I can find.
Guess what, you don't want it. You just want to keep on ranting.
No, I don't want to keep ranting. I think that many reading this want people to stick to their ideals.
Just tell me what happened that made this blog owner change from this Petition Start to this Xmas Story
Again, read that fourth paragraph:
For the haters, I pity you. The benevolence you show strangers contrasted against the contempt you show your coworkers means your charity is null.
Standing along a road for a couple of hours did all that?
Or, if you truely want to make things better, then come on down with some constructive ideas for some open dialog with union folks and ousties who are really trying to get the best for ALL of us.
Lets get to the meat of this discussion! Why did it take the threat of expulsion of this labor organization for a dialog to even begin? Why are threats and intimidation the 'union way'? Is a discussion with a "Fighting Machinist" good for your health & welfare?
I'm done; you get the last word.
Dribble; what John does with his saliva while talking war stories to his wino buddies at the Big Hat each day after work until 2:00am.
I understand the critisism here, but I don't understand why educated folks cant understand that to get any chance of improvement within the next three years, we Ousties need to work with the Union as it is. It's the law. Period. Taking old comments from this blog and using it to throw darts will not change that.
Either you are for fixing the problems or you aren't. If the Union is willing to work with the Ousties to get a better solution for all, then the rhetoric should stop. If the Union blows off the Ousties, then Ousties will claim what some are itching for in this thread.
But that is not in anyone's interest right now. I protested in the past, and would in the future if i had to, but I know it is not in anyone's interest to do so because they are working with the Ousties. So please lighten up. Give this process a chance. It took years for things to get as bad as they are.
Come spend a little time and help us all fix it. You will gain a lot of credibility if you do. Man up.
Actually Mr. X did right. Take apart my post. Tell me something. Sure english is my native language. I speak more than english. I speak truth as I know it. Sure there may not be any printed leaders, but there are leaders. Everyone has leaders and followers. It is just that way.
Me, I stood along the road form a lot longer than a couple of hours, by the way it was mostly boring as hell. I still stand by the road, now on my own. It is not boring.
So, to the meat. I didn't come here by threat of anything. The Oustie movement was pretty much dead. I came here because I needed to. So, for some reason I started posting, at first just to shed light on what I thought was the right. There is no perfect right, no black and white. It is always shaeded. I posted, read, got pissed, got some enlightenment. Got confused, knew I had good things to say, etc. Now we are all down to a moment. Get it or not. It will always be better to work together.
I alos love the fight. Not here with you. I'd rather make things right.
Sorry I missed breakfast, I hope it went well. Someday I will explain more.
John
The folks that started this are skilled talent. They deserve more.
The union should either help the talent or let them go.
Dump the learners programs. Brother in law gives Joe the answers to the test to pass. Accellerated classes done by the company and union are a joke.
These two things are slowly degenerating the workfore into truly a bunch of semiskilled apes.
Jan 26, 2010 7:48:00 PM
BYE BYE BITCHES!!!!!
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