Feeling short changed? Think your classification deserves a raise? Then go stake your claim at breakfast! Order a hot sizzling breakfast and bring your notes.
John the Steward proposes a breakfast at the TTT Truckstop to get this rolling. He wants to propose a “level adjustment” for classifications that can justify their claim. John the Steward is organizing. An Oustie or two will go, and maybe some union officers. Who else should go? Workers who can prove their classification is not fairly represented. What should you bring? Bring Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) data to support your claim. Look up your stats on the web! If you think your job is under paid, then bring the info to support your claim. Maybe bring a laptop. Or printed files with addresses where to find the info. This idea is the brainchild of John the Steward. Machinists, Tool & Die Makers, Metrologists, Testers, and many others should consider coming. Put up or shut up.
What not to bring. Check attitudes at the door. If you have a chip on your shoulder, then its best you stay away. Although the Union and the Ousties were at odds before, this group is over it, and wish to resolve this because it is mutually beneficial, as John put it. This is the first of a series intended to repair the biggest problem within RMS Labor, pay. Are you willing to support your classification for a level adjustment? Bring it on!
70 comments:
I feel overwhelmed, this was my goal. Thank you. Really, I know Doug and the Oustie leaders understand I mean it. Jimbo will be there and hopefully Ramon, Ramon is a great financial wiz. He really understands that kind of stuff. Jimbo asked me to arrange this meeting, so we could all work together for our mutual benifit. Jimbo does really care about your concerns. I plan on taking a back seat. I will be there and availiable for any tasks that will need to be done. I'm just a foot soldier though.
This all started months ago, when I was asked to extend a hand to Doug, and the other Ousties to join us on the line after the failed attempt to decertify and then the attempt to move the Cal Svc Tech occupation into the salaried ranks. Jimbo and Ramon sensed your displesure with not only the Union (That was very apparent) but also with the company for the first time. Jimbo felt that we should let the past go and reach out to you and work together to make things right. Me, I just happened to work with Doug and I guess Jimbo felt I could get past my hatred and make this happen. So, I've accomplished my mission with this meeting. I'm sure I'll be called for some other duties, but this was my prime mission.
I hope to see all intrested in representing their cause at this meeting. This coming Saturday, 8am TTT.
John
If this local wants to continue to be the representative of the hourly worker, why weren't they proactive in rectifying these issues before now?
Why is it left up to us to do their homework, when this type of effort should have been accomplished as a continuing effort within the walls there on Ajo Way?
I am unable to attend. I wish you well in your efforts.
Mr. X you are exactly right, this seems to be a stalling tactic, just to appease the disgruntled workers. Too little, too late. Will there be back pay since the pay disparity began, I doubt it.
So you have to prove your case, that means at this point both the company and union believe all pay is distributed fairly and equitably, and if there isn't someone from each classification
to prove their cases then they get none?
We can complain about the past, and ensure everything stays the same. Or we can work with the cards that were dealt and try to make things better. I plan to be there. The Cal Techs are spoken for. I don't know who will speak up for your clasification if you don't. The data is out there. Will you gather it and come?
We don't have much to loose by working together. The worst that can happen is it's all a waste of time. The benefits are worth that risk. Do you know what your clssification is worth? Find the difference between that and what you make now. Then come have breakfast.
TheOustie@TheRally
This Union will continue to represent the hourly labor force long after you and me are gone. That is just a fact. I've said before, the company doesn't want the Union to go away. It is much easier for them with a Union.They just want to ensure the Union is weak. Or as weak as they can make it.
Why weren't we proactive in recifing these issues before? This is not the same Unon leadership as before. Before it was compacent, spening way to much time on stupid little issues like womenns right, hispanics rights, etd. Yes, there is a place for those, but the Unions prime purpose is to take care of all of tis members. We took our Union back. After the strike, there was a shakeup in leadership.
It is up to you and all of us to do our homework, don't expect me to do it all by myself. People get so lazy and expect others to always constantly do their bidding. You need to hold yourself accountable. Why ar you unable to attend? what is more important than your future. This is a once in a chance opportunity. But, I'm sure you have much more important things to do, they will take care of it for meand if they fail, then I will just be able to bash them for being stupid.
Stalling tactics, backpay? God you're so silly. NO. NO stalling and No back pay. Back pay for wahat? Quite looking behind you, put your eyes forward.
TheOustie@TheRally
Dougie speaks the truth here. Listen to his words.
TTT 8am Saturday.
John
The company would have dumped the union in 06 if they wanted to. The reason they did not was because of money.
It is cheaper to keep the union around. Imagine all the clerical costs involved in negotiating with everyone on an individual basis. The whole business model would have to change. More management would be needed. $$$$$
You take a few classes and become an assembler. The company brings unskilled labor in, then pays for them to take the few classes and now you have a pool of semiskilled labor. What would they do otherwise? The company would have to look at tech schools for people with education and then have to pay them more. $$$$
It takes people to be involved to get change. Just sitting back and bitching about things will not solve your problems. You can't hope others will take up your cause. Whether it's work related or your home life.
What does it take to get people involved in the issues that affect them on a daily basis? As I have been reading on this blog, this pay issue has been around for years but all people have done is bitch about it. Or that is what I have gathered from this blog.
Getting people involved is the key. It seems that this is the issue now with the union members and the ousties. It is a good thing as far as I am concerned.
A united work force is a strong work force.
Oh, and without a union the company would not negotiate with each and every one of you individually. They would say this is your wage and if you don't like it hit the road. You would say goodbye to a lot of your benefits as well.
Have a great Union day!
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!
I think they would negotiate with the hourly workers the same as they do the salaried folks, I don't see many of them hitting the road.
It seems they get paid fairly well and I'm sure they all talk turkey during review time to try and get more. I don't know the percentage, but many salaried folks make $75K
or more at least the ones I'm acquainted with.
So, since the union represents all hourly workers why aren't they doing it equitably? Since we can't represent ourselves, why can't they negotiate money and benefits that I could negotiate for and probably get. They are my agent whether member or non-member and should be looking and researching for my best interest as I would do for myself.
Economic Crossroads
You all bring tears to my eyes. Me I've been through a lot pf personal shit these last few weeks, but, I have a mission, that I truely belive in. I don't believe I'll be around long enough to enjoy it for myself. but you have to finish what you start. HR and BOB GUTH have it out for me. I have retained alawyer. I will win in the end. They have no idea. I will nevr go down without a fight to the end.
So, tomarrow, TTT at 8 am. Jimbo and the other Union Leaders. I don't know who will show. Doug, and the Oustie leaders will meet. This is the start. It can only get better if we all stick together.
I hope you say hi and acknolwedge me. I have done my part, from tomorrow on out. it is up to leaders on both sides to make this happen. I will do what Jimbo needs for support.
God, you all have no idea, Doug and Jimbo do. But I will percivere.
John
You all bring tears to my eyes. Me I've been through a lot pf personal shit these last few weeks, but, I have a mission, that I truely belive in. I don't believe I'll be around long enough to enjoy it for myself. but you have to finish what you start. HR and BOB GUTH have it out for me. I have retained alawyer. I will win in the end. They have no idea. I will nevr go down without a fight to the end.
So, tomarrow, TTT at 8 am. Jimbo and the other Union Leaders. I don't know who will show. Doug, and the Oustie leaders will meet. This is the start. It can only get better if we all stick together.
I hope you say hi and acknolwedge me. I have done my part, from tomorrow on out. it is up to leaders on both sides to make this happen. I will do what Jimbo needs for support.
God, you all have no idea, Doug and Jimbo do. But I will percivere.
John
Jeff they already negotiate with 80% of the employees......
The system you described is the system the company and the union have in place. You start at x wage no matter experience or education.....
As for the meeting:
It's a trap!
Nine hours and no news??
Thought there might have been some gloating going on by now.
Wow! I didn't know there were anxious eyes waiting for a report! OK OK, here is the scoop. I went to breakfast this morning and had chicken fried steak, eggs, hash-browns, biscuits & gravy, and 5 cups of coffee. Only a few of us were there to break the ice and exchange ideas. Thanks again John for asking me to come.
It was not a lost cause. I think we need to exercise our total value to RMS, create motivation within the work force to move upward, and get professional pay for professional work. I don't want to "Detroit®" the Company. Look what happened with the big three. Both sides agree the concept has value. The devil is in the details. Let’s solve the pay disparity, increase value to the Company, and bury the respect issues that plague Labor.
We brought a different viewpoint to help solve problems. Some of the classifications didn't get talked about enough because they were not there. But I handed over a list worth looking at. It sure would be nice to get input from workers in those fields. Was all this a stalling tactic? Was it a trap? Who cares? We are locked into a contract until 2012. Until then, it can't hurt to loan our ideas and energy to inspire a better deal between now and then. Ultimately, the Union is in the driver’s seat.
Last October I took a risk of going out to the Rally Line. I had butterflies entering a large crowd chanting for fair wages, knowing they could splatter me like a bug on a windshield. But they didn't. Instead they shook my hand and thanked me for coming. Today they listened to my ideas about fair wages. Not bad, considering that this would not have happened if I had just drove by. We walked out of the TTT with the understanding that something good can come of this.
TheOustie@TheRally
It's a trap!
LOL!
These jobs are just positions and money to the everyone (Worker, company and union). The fact that they are a trade or skill has been lost in the shuffle of greed. Dump the learners programs. You want to increase the bargaining power. Make the workers take the classes and not test out after their brother in law gave them the answers. Make them truly irreplacable. When a worker gets to me, I expect them to know what a rivet is, what a composite is and know how to use a fricking torque wrench. Half the people in Process/composites don't really understand what the different types of composites are, the hazards of the materials, and how to properly handle them. My little Aviation Technology degree has given me a real advantage over these fast track learner program employees. Stop sending me people from assembly that don't have a clue about composites. It is an insult. Make these jobs skills like they were ment to be.
Yesterday was a great day for me. Breakfast with the Ousties at TTT, God my frigging Belly was bursting. What great food. There is only one place that has a better breakfast as far as I'm concerned. Jimbo took me a couple of weeks before and we discusssed your ousties issues. Ajo cafe, little place on Ajo and I think Country club. God, that polish sausage and eggs, is to die for. I took the wife there over the holidays, now she's a taco bell mexican when it comes to food. She ordered a spanish omlette. I got the polish sausage and eggs, etc. She got her plate, it was loaded with fresh salsa. she took a couple of bites and couldn't eat it any more. I traded her and she was okay after that. God, that was fresh home made salsa on that omelete.
Okay, got off here again. I just want to acknowledge Jeff here.
Jeff, isn't one of our members. But he has gone out of his way to speak up for our Union. Why? Because Jeff truely believes in the cause. He had nothing to gain when he makes his posts. You and I do. Jeff was actually tracked down by ousties, not to hurt him, but to find out who and where he is. That spooked him for awhile, then he came back and posted more. That is true dedication to a cause. Jeff, you have my most profound respect brother.
Jeff, I gave out my email before. I've had to change it. The old one now has over 1500 spam in the folder. I have a new one. My phone rings off the hook constantly from people calling to let me know of this offer of debt relief, etc that I had requested online? Shit, I have so little debt and so much in the bank. I will probably have to get a new phone number now. But, I will wait until after this is over. some people just don't want to listen to the truth and will do everything they can think of to stop it. It never works though.
Jeff, John Williams, Sahuarita, AZ look me up, call, if you are ever here. I will buy you one. I'll give Doug, the Oustie a call and Jimbo too so we can all meet and shake your hand. If I'm headed to your area and I know how to contact you the same.
There was an earlier post about how come we're not talking about some of the other occupations? You were asked, by Doug and myself to attend this meeting, but you chose not to come. This isn't the first and it won't be the last. I can understand some hesitation. Going forward, you must attend if you want your occupation represented. Otherwise I don't want to hear you fucking shribely little voice. Reach down grab a pair and show up. Voice your sentiments in a respectful way. That was what we did yesterday. Actually me I said the least. Like I said, my job is to get you to the table for Jimbo. Jimbo wants to hear and truly will listen and will tell you the real truth. It might not be exactly what you want to hear, but it will be very close.
Well I've bee off work for the most part for three weeks. Today is my last day off for a while. Tomorrow and Dougie knows, I will walk through that Valley, where I will have to fear no evil. I have to be badder than Bob Guth. He's a manager of Labor relations (HR), I'm a simple calibration Service Tech. Bob, got what he thinks he can bury me with. Ain't so Bob, I now have a lawyer and I'm coming for you. You and Raytheon have very deep pockets. Attorneys love to dig into them. You, Bob, using your power as an HR manger, have used it to attack me personally. This STEWARD will not back down. You fired what you thought was a "KILL" shot. I survived, just barely. Watch out now. You thought my email was a threat? I will now contain myself and let the lawyers handle it BOB.
Tomorrow
John
Oh, I wanted to mention the rest of my day yesterday. After the Oustied/Union meeting I attended a BBQ provided by the Americcan Legion Riders. The Sgt of Arms, from my post #109 asked me to come by. Actually I had told him of our meeting at TTT and the Union/Oustie thing. He said come on by afterwards. I did, what a great day. There were old and young vets there. Some so old, they could barely chew their food. Big old bikers with their hot looking women, serving them. Grabbing a burger , or a soda, even wiping their face. Some of the riders are Vietnam vets, most are now Iraq and Afgan vets. With medals of courage, which they display proudly. I was indeed very humbled that they would include me in their group. They embraced me as a true brother into their society. Later (several hours later) I was headed out for home and Deb. Their Sgt of Arms pulled me over and said "We were there at the TTT". I asked, why didn't you come over? He said that was your business, I did not want to interupt your meeting. We just wanted to be there to cover your ass if something went down. I was being watched over and protected, by these combat vets. God is truely watching over me.
John
Is it the thrill of victory, or the agony of defeat? Who knows.
Why would there have been any hint of violence in the meeting yesterday? The only one that has made any mention of violence in this blog has been - who?
The meeting is over, the die has been cast, and now Ousties & union members will work together toward a common goal. Were there any new members signed up yesterday, by chance?
"Was all this a stalling tactic? Was it a trap? Who cares? We are locked into a contract until 2012."
Remember that comment about using the writer's own words against them?
Is a refresher required? Seven Lies
Keep your friends close......
Keep your enemies closer......
Koolaid..........
Koolaid, I like your style. Yes ,I do keep my enemys close. Very close.
"Why would there have been any hint of violence in the meeting yesterday? The only one that has made any mention of violence in this blog has been - who?"
Well, maybe aginst me. I didn't think so. I did not aske for their protection. Vets, and Bikers are just kind of like that. They will cover those that they have accepted into their fold. I know that. I'm a Marine Vet and a biker. I didn't ask or expect. They made that deterimation on their own. Sure, I keep myself protected. You'll never know unless your cross me. I was trained very well.
You can feel free to use anything I have ever posted against me. That is why I have always posted my name. JOHN the FUCKING STEWARD from 847, can I get any clearer here asshole. Yes, I do appoligise, I,m so fucking tired and hurt. I'm not afraid to man up and admit that I'm human. Tomarrow, will probably be the hardest, most strange day for me. Do not try to Fuck with me tomorrow. I will be mean. I just don't give a shit about anything. Not even this right now. There is ,t enought Whiskey to munb me right now. I'll be cold stone sober tomorrow though. There will be retribution.I will clear ny name before i leave on MY TERMS. THose who have purposely tried to hurt me and you did, You will feel my retribution.
Sorry, to all, that was a personal rag to company agents, that I'm sure are checking these posts. Want some more of me, just fucking wait. YEs, you want to send me to the EAP couselor, well, because of this gfucking company I will need couseling. And then I'll be better, or will I?
I will be the worst fucking steward you have ever dealt with.
John
You need some chocolate cake with vanilla ice cream....
After looking at today's comments, I am not surprised that we have criticism. There is no thrill, nor agony. Any fears of violence are fostered by ignorance about the opposing side. I didn't bring arms or backup, but I did bring my best cigars in hope. It didn't get that good...yet. But there is tomorrow.
The IAM would not have done their job had they not attempted to recruit us. I have certain freedoms as a non-aligned worker, something I would give up if I were to join. I'm not going to try to de-rail them neither. There are enough others that want that. The Ousties are a diverse group. Most don't agree that we even should have met. But we went anyway. And we agreed afterward that it was worth the effort.
As far as the 7 lies bit, we didn't get fed any of those lines. Neither side expected to hear one of the Union guys say "we don't have as big of a difference as we imagined." We went with charts and graphs to support our perspective. They didn't shoot us down and call us names. I got the impression that they were happy. We didn't go there talking smack, but instead we presented facts and data in a respectful way. And they realized we are not greedy and mal informed, but genuine and willing to cooperate. When they finish checking our sources and data, they will agree that this is a good cause.
John mentioned that he's dealing with HR. I don't want that to overshadow what happened this weekend. This has him like a pressure cooker, and he's venting steam. He'll simmer down when the heat is off. I've seen him change for the good at work with others. It's real. For almost three months now, I can attest to his friendlier self. The last thing in the world I want to see right now is a Steward VS HR contest, especially after he mellowed out so much at work.
TheOustie@TheRally
Well spoken Dougie
Ok, so I have been reading/lurking here on occasions. So, now what I hear is that you guys are all going to kiss and make up? What’s up with that? Whatever happened to self representation? Instead the union throws you a bone and you go racing around the yard heads held up like proud little union soldiers? No thanks, I think I will pass. You all are just a bunch of quitters and losers. No better than the drunk fool called John. Steward or not, I think I would rather represent myself than have that slob try. Adios.
Not all of us are in that mode.
Anonymous said...
Ok, so I have been reading/lurking here on occasions. So, now what I hear is that you guys are all going to kiss and make up? What’s up with that? Whatever happened to self representation? Instead the union throws you a bone and you go racing around the yard heads held up like proud little union soldiers? No thanks, I think I will pass. You all are just a bunch of quitters and losers. No better than the drunk fool called John. Steward or not, I think I would rather represent myself than have that slob try. Adios.
Jan 12, 2010 5:53:00 PM
Oh, you just make it so easy for me. Such a fucking fool.
Yes, I believe you lurk, just like Golum such a trickster.
Go ahead and self represent your self, How about to me asshole, come on down. You still use anomyous. Such a fucking coward, such a little pissant. I speak my name "John, the Steward" you still lurk and hide, like all of your ilk, slimey little bastards, who blast form afar in the dark. Chicken shit, come on out. I fucking dare you. Yes, all I'm full of so much. I dare the whole of you last little pieces of shit to take me on.
Those Ousties who show, only two, were far fucking braver that your girly assed pussed self. They took a stand and met their enemies. You still quiver in the dark and shot little fairy arrrows. You fucking disgust me, you are not worth my rant. This rant is not for you, you will quiver and hide like always. This rant is for those others who see your cowardice. Me, Dougie, and Willie who are not afraid to put aside our diffences to come up with a solution. While you just hide and critsize. Fuck you.
So, you have the aducity to call me a drunken fool, question my stewardship. I like my whiskey, I'll bet you drink wine collers at most, maybe what? Once a year. What a fucking wimp. Marines learn to drink hard, fight hard and kill their enemys without remorse.
I recently got in trouble with HR, for, my use of my Marine Corps training about that word that they taught me. I don't give a shit. I will defend my honor, my country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That is the oath they made me take when I enlisted. asshole. To me you are a domestic enemy. I am only doing what my country made me pledge to do. SO, you, HR and GOD and whoever else. Come on down, I'm waiting for your, scrawny, or big fat ass to ever present yourself to me as a formidible enemy.
Ah, that Whiskey is good. I'd sound the same though, with or without it. Actually drinking Whiskey mellow me.
John
I'ld like to ask all to remember this is still a PG rated blog. Please tone it down a notch.
Being a little more professional wouldn't hurt....... In my eyes I become more suspicious that perhaps you were the one constantly trolling the other blogs with links and profane rhetoric...
Maybe everyone who posts here should be forced to use an ID to lesson the confusion......
The trick is to win the Ousties support as soon as possible. Three years before the next contract is a long time for the Ousties to rally more suppport to their cause.
Suberbia Parti
I was in a rare foul mood, more foul lately than usual. Dougie can attest as to why. I just sometimes do go overboard when folks like that rant from afar and critise. It was a bit personal. calling me a drunken fool and questioning my stewardship.
I will again try not to let a post like tht get to me. I prefer real discourse. You can disagree with me or not. Do it in a civil tone.. Calling me a drunken fool, when I'm in a bad mood will get reaction from me.
Yes, professionalism is the proper way. Only fools use foul language to try to prove their point. I haven't trolled to any other blogs and I only stated posting to this one in November. That was after I decided that I would try and debunk all the anti-Union rhetoric.
I've been in a foul mood and rightly so, wrongly accused of workplace violence and sexual harrassment. Not true, cleard by HR. THen corporate somehow gets involved and 848 security is informed by some VSM (Watch myself here, asshole) that John is a known violent offendeder) that is after I'd been cleard by HR. Now, a temp suspension of my SAP, while investigation. Even HR told them that they had convened a special review board and found that I was not a risk for violence. But, no those in 848 security think they are above our own HR. Apparently they are.
So, please forgive, after being suspended directly after the holidays by a fabricated story, Happy new Year, now go away. Drug through the grinder, getting my badge back, only to have my SAP suspended after being cleard by BobGuth and the rest of HR. Pulled over and searched that morning at 5am. IT does make you a little eddgy. That on top of only 2 hours of sleep and an idiot post like that, okay?
John
I don't see the connection between the union problem and the personal problem.
I'm not sure that I'd want to post anything like that.
Well Union reps and a few ousties had a little get together regarding wage rates. In the shadow of this kumbaya moment it is apparent this was a futile attempt by a few ousties to inform the union of their errors and how to rectify it. Remember guys the union was made aware of their errors before the current contract. What did they do? Zip, Zilch, NOTHING. Given the past performance of this union the only thing these two rogue ousties received was a breakfast on their own dime and a fake look of concern by Watson. Nothing will be done as long as we are represented by this assembler’s union. Even John the steward, an outstanding example of union leadership, admits there is pay disparity among skilled labor. He even hired a lawyer to iron out his HR problems instead of using his prepaid union legal council. He also appears to have little faith in his union. One thing remains the same; we still have this same lousy union and the same poor representation FOR ANOTHER 3 YEARS!
There are several people still following this oust movement and they know we are better off without this union. Unfortunately there is much apathy by people in the hourly ranks toward this union. They feel nothing can be done about it. The only suitable solution is by severing this union’s representation from the skilled jobs and let this union have the semi or no skilled labor. If skilled labor wants union representation then bring in a more professional union that will represent skilled labor as it should. SPEEA has been brought up as being interested. They also appear to have a good track record. SPEEA or self representation is better then what we have right now. The ousties now should focus on the problem right now and get rid of this union. Do not aid them; it was their job to fix the disparity in the first place. Why should the oust movement be a union operations troubleshooter. Let’s focus on the problem now with no diversions.
Signed
A disgruntled hourly worker. NO, I will not post my name. Why? The union has a poor track record in regards to private information.
Amen to the above post. Well spoken whoever you are. I do not trust unions in general but if we must call in another union to get rid of this one, where do I sign up?
Signed: Also Anonymous. I know that the ousties will enact no violence against me however, the union is a whole different ball game.
Oh my, I must have hit a sore spot with Johnnie up above. Sorry but I guess the truth hurts once in a while. Anyway, I set two barbs out on that one and only got one response. My other barb (which was much more potent if you ask me) was in regards to this huggy/kissy with the union way this blog has turned. I am an ex union employee and am also one of the skilled/educated workers in the workforce. When I first heard of iam933.net and logged into this blog it seemed to be singing a different tune. Are you all that easily turned by the union bosses inviting you to talk to them? I expect they received their orders from above and would much rather squash you like bugs rather than palaver with you. However, if they can turn you aside, their goal has been reached. Are you truly that weak? If so, I am sorry and will leave here with regret since I believe your original cause (decertification of 933) was a valid one. If not, why are you dancing with this ugly lady? You can put lipstick on a pig but alas it is still just a pig.
Don't leave!
Beer goggles!
Koolaid goggles!
LOL!
I know....
A coyote woman is still a coyote woman even with goggles on....
Somebody put poison in the bottled water....
Some of the Ousties are playing games with the carnies....
Good luck hitting those balloons with the darts they give you....
A connection in between my personal situation and the issues that affect us all. God, my perosnal situation has nearly caused the end to all.I've been through the valley, back out and back through it again. Just in this New year alone. I lived to tell. Later I will explain it all. I'm held to keep ,my tounge for now. We are real, the ousties and the union. Like I said before, this is not the same union leadership as before.
As God is my witness, I do not beilve Jimbo had a fake look of concern, I was there, you were not, you could have been if you wanted to, You can be for the next. Please come and then post what you saw. I can tell, you are not stupid. You make a very relevant rant. It is just no so. Yes I did, retain my own legal counsel. I had to move very fast. I will seek the Unions legal representive for further advice. Will I use him? not likely, because my situation is not his forte. He will probably point me in the right direction though. God I raced accross town today, to make my 3:15 appointment. Only to find that it was 3:15 tomorrow. Tjhis situation has me so wired, that I don't know what day it is. I had to laugh at my own foolishness. Otherwise I'd have gone nuts.
This is not the assemblers Union, yes, wee do also represent the assemblers too and always will, we represent all, we try our best to. like I said quite a lot has changed. It started with Bobby Martinez and has continued with Jimbo. Bobby is now the international rep for all of southern US. This little sleepy 933 local, that had 1200 or so members, has grown to around 2000, those are not just Raytheon members, even I conplained about an ADBR, now I see it. Soon we will be over 20,000 strong. NAPI too will soon join. It is our time, with the right leaders, who really have mine, yours and all others concern. I swear to God, on my belief that this is the right thing to do. Please, trust me. I think some of you are starting too. I've laid my soul bear to you at great risk, but well worth it if you will at least understand and support. I don't even ask you to join as a member. Just stand together as a united force and the company will listen.
Your barbs are so minor to what I have gone through so very recently. I'll explain later. If only you knew the real truth.
Solo, isn't he that closet Liberal, where did you get this guy?
John
You say you aren't a violent person yet you constantly levy threats towards others? Heck, just a few posts earlier you all but reached through the computer and punched someone.
As for your comments about Marines and the Marine Corps, I have to say that once again, you do a horrible job of representation. In MY Marine Corps, we were taught to respect our fellow Marines, even if we didn't like them. You have disrespected me on so many levels that I have lost count. If someone wants to drink wine coolers, water, scotch, or beer, then it is none of your business. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe some people have alcoholics in their families so they don't drink? Yeah, and you want to say they are less of a person (as your little rant would have us believe) because of this? Some of the most upstanding Marines I've had the pleasure of working with did not drink except at the mess night and only then did they drink during the toasts.
You want to talk about taking the oath and protecting from all enemies foreign and domestic? I took that oath 5 times in the Marine Corps and not once did it refer defending your honor against enemies, both foreign and domestic. It refered to defending the Constitution. THAT is how you defend your honor, by upholding the promise you made in that oath. And furthermore, perhaps you've forgotten that motto: "God, Country, Corps". Remember that? Nowhere in there is "I" or "self".
But you go high and to the right because someone called you a name on an anonymous blog somewhere in cyberspace? You are an extremely poor representative of the Marine Corps and do not represent me or the Marines that I call friends or those that have made the ultimate sacrifice.
And Marines also know how to apologize for their mistakes. You apologize by trying to justify it with your personal problems. If the stress is too much, then stay away from here until you have a level head and can interact with people in a respectful manner.
As for me, I know I am far from perfect, just like everyone else. As for my name, hell no I am not going to post it in the open out here. I've already been threatened once by a member of your honorable union. I'll be damned if I'm going to put my name out there. I can hold my own in a fight, but my training was to avoid the fight if at all possible and engage only as a last resort. But you know that.
I seem to have taken a few broadsides, from Oustie supporters too. I can't speak for all the Ousties, but I do understand every motivation why we took up the rebellion. So I will explain my recent actions.
More than four months ago, the Ousties lost a petition to decertify the Union. Based upon the population of the labor force, we needed about 510 signatures to have justified an election. We came close to about half the required signatures. No cigar! Yea, there were hundreds of people clamoring to knock down our doors, because they thought we were right. But the required signatures never showed up in time. And the Cal Tech majority didn't count, because NLRB rules wouldn't allow it.
So now, here we are. We still have the same problems that started this. And we have contract in place until 2012. The Union understands there are hundreds of disgruntled workers. They want to do something about it. They asked for our points of view. Better late than never, right? So yea, I agree to talk with them on this. And I've agreed to help them about it too. I will risk if I can achieve success over the problems that bother me about the Union.
Why help the organization that I fought? Because there is no other logical answer to the question. We are locked in until 2012. Plenty of time to work with them for a change. They already know we're here, and could pose a menace. They want to reduce potential risk. You mention another Union. OK, maybe they have something to offer. But before we burn a bridge to a decent change, why not let them show us they've changed enough to keep them? The Union has replaced old officers with people of character. How about the new Negotiating Committee member, Dan A? He has an impecable record and his character is second to none.
They have not brain washed me, but there is enough credible reason now to at least cooperate. You said we Ousties are solving all the problems they should have solved long ago. So what?
If pay gets solved, isn't your life better? Does it matter that I volunteered to do it, or must Jimbo think of it all? If the Union is moving to correct the past, and is activly pursuing our ideas on these issues, then why not give them an opportunity? If we exhaust all measures and the Union hamstrings us, then by all means, you would be right. But that is not the case. I stand by my decision. You are welcome to stand by me, or criticize me. If I am wrong, then that is a feather in your cap. If I am right, we all win. Everyone.
TheOustie@TheRally
I can add nothing more to the Ousties post. This is the real thing.
Dude, I punched. You have no idea my button is so easily pushed right now. Yes, I can react fast. But, I'm really normally a nice, well thought out and reasoned person. If I offended I appologise. I do believe you did call me a drunken idiot and questioned my steardship? Right? So, let's put that aside. We both gave an oath. yes for God, country and family.
I ask for your friendship.
Semper-FI
John
I just have to vent some more.
I've been through the wringer. The Oustie has some clue. We work together. I'm not there. The last few weeks I've had to fight here, work and at home. I've been betrayed by the Princess. Yes, call it what you want, but to me it was a true friendship, It seems like I've been in the boonies for so long on point, that my nerves are frazzled. So, yes, right now I have a hair trigger.
John
Solo Jan 12, 2010 8:33:00 PM
The trick is to win the Ousties support as soon as possible. Three years before the next contract is a long time for the Ousties to rally more suppport to their cause.
How difficult is it to see this?
It took 3 years of pointing out the problems of this union here and other on-line places (unfortunately idled for now) to poke and point at the host of problems 933 has - not HAD - for the skilled-labor ranks.
TheOustie Jan 14, 2010 12:54:00 AM
If the Union is moving to correct the past, and is activly pursuing our ideas on these issues, then why not give them an opportunity? If we exhaust all measures and the Union hamstrings us, then by all means, you would be right. But that is not the case. I stand by my decision. You are welcome to stand by me, or criticize me. If I am wrong, then that is a feather in your cap.
Willing to destroy all that had been worked for up to this point to see if kissing & making up will work?
Confusion of the masses. One good way to mess up all that had been accomplished in the past.
To the all hourly employees, in light of these recent blog entries please do not let the actions of one individual taint the primary goal. Those at IAM933.NET are still focused on this goal. That goal is on the front page of the website. They have not abandoned you nor have they forgot the primary purpose of the site. The website is under new ownership and is currently being upgraded. They are looking at options for better communications to convey the effort to the hourly workforce. The movement is still gaining awareness. The ousties are diverse group and the actions of one do not reflect the intent of the many. The general consensus in our group is that if any action done by this union in good faith will not happen until contract time. Action should be done now not later.
Did you guys eat too much burnt toast at that breakfast?
Yea, there were hundreds of people clamoring to knock down our doors, because they thought we were right. But the required signatures never showed up in time.
Then clearly tell them how much time they (the membership -and- the union) how much time there is remaining until October 28, 2012?
So, on Aug 30, 2012 outside the gates of the plant the petitions will be ready to be signed? That's two years and seven months?
I can't wait! Be sure to mark that date on your calendars!
The website [IAM933.NET] is under new ownership and is currently being upgraded.
Upgraded? The facts and data were clearly posted there for all to see and read.
Perhaps this whole little episode right here needs to be archived for posterity as well.
By the way, how is Agent Smith doing these days? Haven't heard much from him lately. John, maybe you need to go back and spend some time reading those rants.
The Oustie ain't setting a time limit. He said they have a contract till 2012. Ya'll failed to crush the union. Now you hammer the guy for talking to them? Have you a better solution? Please share.
This is good discourse. I have my view and you have yours. We have not been slamming each other lately, well not as much. there are raw nervers that will take some time to heal.
This is not kiss and make up, this is just trying to focus, yes, you have your ideas, and we have ours. But they are not that far apart. We bielvie in solidariity, you belive in individualisum. You'd be surprised how many Unionsist are true conservativea and believe in individuealsim. Hell, even I wanted to join Chris Simcox the border group to keep illegals out. But where we work, it just would have been a stupid move. I have made my peace. The Union is not one of them.
Oustie@IAm933org.net or what ever. Keep up your goal. I hope it is not on just trying to destroy, you will lose I hope it is on trying to correct the injustice. which this current leadership agrees with. So does other Ousties. Just think, ifthis unionship fails and the current leadership is cast out, then the ones who created this mess will again be back in power. This is both yous and mine chance to rally make it happen. It will not be celebrated as a great Union victory, but what can happen if labor stickstk together.
I left my attorney's office today. I was at Swanm and Broadway? there were people outside with signs galore protesting something. Me the UNionist thought there must be some injustice. When I got close, I saw signs saying Gabby, socialist, Obamaba communist, quite a crowd. All kinds of racial slures. Is this what you want. A group of folks driven by Sean Hannity, Ruxh Limbaugh? Fucking Poges, supported intrests. I used to think Savage was a lunitic, yes he is. but, he does teel the truth in a demented way. He will take on either side that steps across the line. Not so. he hates hipocrates, yes he is wild. but he will call out on either side. Just listen to your masteres, Hannit, Rush and Beck ( well, I still reserve judment on him)I am he am radio Talk show JUnkie. So Undersand I have heard all sides.
So, very tired. mett with lawyer today and corporate ethics lawyer. If you ever have a serious problem. Call them, the corporate Ethics. God I was blown away, how much this guy card and gave me so much good advice. I expected to speak to the devil. John is not always right.
Shit I've lost my focus.
JJohn
Got quiet again, I see.
The Oustie ain't setting a time limit. He said they have a contract till 2012. Ya'll failed to crush the union. Now you hammer the guy for talking to them?
We had a contract as well in 2006. Many worked for nearly three years to educate the masses about the issues and problems. The bargaining unit members were intimidated (as were the Ousties) in their efforts to eliminate the union.
Business as usual.
The difference this time is threefold. In 2006-07 they came back full of hate and anger. They have put that aside (leaders anyway). Back then they didn't want to hear our message. Now they have come looking for it. Back then they didn't see they had a problem; they just blamed the company and anyone that opposed them. Now their officers are looking for ways to fix what drove hundreds of workers away. They aren't under pressure any more by anyone, and after some self evaluation, those officers think this is a good move.
When the strike was over in 2007, I saw lots of problems with the union, and I talked a lot about them to my coworkers. I argued with my steward until he shut me out. Three years later he reaches out to me and asks me to help him, he's willing to listen, and his officers are too.
If they are trying to fix things, then I would contradict myself to fight them at the moment they are trying to get it right. Keep a watchful eye. Call it cautious optimism. Make a results oriented judgment on this episode. And don’t take apart the machine that helped hundreds of workers see the problems this Union has. Instead use it to make sure that the problems we talked about on these pages are dealt with.
The Union has a lot of work to do. But they came to us looking for solutions. For the past three years we told them they were doing things all wrong, and that we had all the solutions. Now that they are asking to see some of the details, what should I do, take my ball and go home?! I plan to offer help as long as I see that they genuinely want to fix the issues that caused the petition. I'm not asking you to put your guard down. I'm asking you to contribute, fix the problems that they talked to us about. Give them real solutions instead of rhetoric and bashing without purpose. We want an improved workplace. If the Ousties fight was more than political, then we will offer concrete answers to our complaints, and that is the bottom line.
TheOustie@TheRally
As the Oustie@therally said. There is no more truth than that.
Me, I now have a new love in my life. I've always been a pitbull dog person. For some unknown reason I stopped by the side of the road yesterday. Thinking, maybe a baby pits. Mexican couple. Young daughter and cowboy mexican (yes he didn't speak english, his daughter did). I turned around down the road and returned . Pulled up, got out. Walked towards them and saw cocker spanial puppies. I was just going to pet, smile and leave. Then this one little runt from the litter. Smashing over all the other lumps came to me. That was it. I'm now the proud father. His name is Gate. There is a very special story behind that name. Today, my heart is filled with joy. I have laughed more today, than in the entire last three years. God is great. He gave me Gate to heal my heart.
Okay, I got corney there.
Dougie spoke the truth.
John
SPEEA was brought up as alternative to this union. I decided to do some research on SPEEA’s accomplishments and benefits. They handle representation of Engineering and technical workers. SPEEA is a good alternative to this union that is “IF” you need a union. One thing kept nagging me. Does this IAMAW machinist union represent professional engineers? Well with a little google search they do represent engineers. Proof is Raytheon field engineers in Hawaii are represented by IAMAW. I’m sure there are more examples. Question, why haven’t the engineers at this Tucson location joined your local lodge 933? If Raytheon is such a bad company to work for and everyone is scared of losing their job how come the engineers haven’t been considered for your recruitment? If they were recruited what was their response? I await your answer Mr. Steward.
Since John hasn't answered, I will tender a response for him. He will probably say "They would but they would be fired if they started to organize." I on the other hand have candidly talked to a few engineers that I respect and they say that a union would get in the way of their advancement. This was according to a couple of EE's hired off the street and one guy who was a convert from hourly to salary. I also asked them if they felt they would be fired for organizing with a union and they did not. However, they did not want anything to do with this or any union. Just goes to show what a little education does for you.
It is also my opinion that this union keeps our wages down not only within our classifications but also in general with their socialistic policy of everyone gets the same wage. Is this something that this group is fighting? I just don't see how it would be profitable for the company to make a wage adjustment like you guy's seem bent on getting (from the union) without allowing for merit raises. Why must every schlub in my classification make the same as me when they only do half the work that I do? Let the cream float to the top and be paid as such.
Perhaps you should give John more time. Even if it appears that I live on the computer. Notice most of my posts are early in the morning. Day time I usually do other things.
I'll check out this SPEEA. One thing I have learned in life is that a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. Every organization has it's problems. Some you don't see until you get involved with them.
As for the recruitment of our own engineers. I believe the IAMAW is the same union for the boeing engineers too. Maybe more research is needed there, but that's what I've always heard.
Sure, our Union has had it's problems, we're working on fixing those problems. In all my years as a member of this Union, I have NEVER seen a better group of leaders that are really trying to make it right, correct the wrongs. So, for that reason alone I believe we should support this Union. They will make it happen.
Engineers and wannabe testers (engineers), hey, I'm not putting them down, I was one and cal sv are wannabe engineers too.
Education is great, doesn't make you any smarter though. Anyone, given the right finances can get a friggin PHD if they want.I personally know a Doctor that I wouldn't hire to wash my friggin truck, let alone diagnose my ills. I know a lame assed fucked up piece of stinking shit bag VSM name of Gillermo Robles, that can't manage crap. Was that too personel here? Fuck him and the pig he rode in on. I wll see him banished, if nothing else. Fucker set me up, he'll pay.
We have never tried to actively recruit Raytheon engineers. Hey, I would love too, others don't understand that the engineers are fair game. They are not management. Some positions are, like the PTE leads, etc.
I too have talked with many enginners about the Union. it is split. Most hate the company as we do. A lot have a personal agenda and desire to become management. They will never join, because they feel that would jeopordise that career path. Those that plan on staying in enginnereing I belive are mostly likely to join. Of those that plan on staying as an engineer are split on view of the union, just as testers and cal servcie techs. For the exact same reasons. I feel that if they did join, all would far better. Still, testers and cal service would be the minority. How meny PTE's etc as compared to testers & cal service tech? Just as the assemblers out number us what? 5 to 1? Engineers would out number us 100 to 1. See the delima? We would truely be at the bottom of the barrel, our message would be buried.
I think that for now we should just concentrate on clearing the pay disparity, one step at a time. then overall building of this local. This local will sone be over 20,000 strong. Currently it is 2,000 strong. This will be a major change, change is good, but you have to adjust and absorb. Grow to fast and it is too chaotic. Then we can work with the engineers, by then they will see how benifical it will be for them and they will not be the majority. Some how you have to ensure equal representation for occupations. there are some occupations that have only one or two people. They never get heard. I belive a committee should be made of every occupation where one or 1,000, with equal say.
Just my thoughts, good, but I'm sure that would be just the beginning.
John
I have heard about SPEEA too. I have heard their dues are lower than ours. Like half. I don't know much else except they represent Boeing. I like the sound of a union dedicated to our technical workers. Before I met with our Union Reps, I was leaning toward bringing in another union. Right now I hang in the balance of the on-going talks to improve things with the present Union. This chapter of cooperation will determine my ultimate opinion. John says the new Union leaders are going to make good on the past. I'm anxious to see actions that result in a big sigh of relief among or workers.
As far as unionizing engineering staff, this is one area that John and I have to agree to disagree. Over two & 1/2 years ago John told me about what he writes here; that the engineers hate the Company too. I don't share that sentiment. He and I had a gentleman's discussion about it, and he challenged me to ask ten engineers what they think. Would they want a union? Are they afraid of Company retribution if they tried to join? Do they feel their pay would go up if they had one? I felt like he was mistaken, so I took him up on his challenge. It proved to be a big one.
I went to a wide variety of people because I wanted to avoid stacking the deck. I could have just asked my PTEs, but that would have been too easy, and easy for him to shoot down. So I also picked out some other engineers. After a few guys, I went random, thinking of race-gender balance to increase the unpredictability. One guy was a former Union Member, promoted to engineer. Another was a guy that had recently been given a sabbatical week off for dropping hardware. One guy from my church is an engineer, so I asked him his private opinion. Later I asked a woman, and one of John's engineers rounded out a total of ten.
The hardest part of the challenge was finding an engineer who agreed with him. None agreed with the assertion that they would be better off with a union. John got angry with me the day I reported back to him. Real angry. I guess tension was so high back then, it really didn't matter. Maybe there are engineers out there that want a union to represent them. I can only say that at that time, I couldn't find any. How does all that affect us? Not in the slightest. Because in reality, we have a union, a contract, and a moment where two opposing sets of ideas look to compromise and eliminate the need to get SPEEA or anyone else involved at RMS.
TheOustie@TheRally
I would like someone to tell me about a bargaining unit of engineers (actual four-year degreed types) in a right-to-work state.
Can anyone find one?
WICHITA, Kan. -- Engineers at Spirit AeroSystems have approved a new 3u-year contract that provides a 3 percent bonus, annual salary increases and ensures engineers are compensated for all overtime hours above the regular 40-hour workweek.
Results from two days of voting were announced at the Wichita office of the Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace (SPEEA), IFPTE Local 2001. The new contract covers 783 engineers at the former Wichita commercial airline division of The Boeing Company
Kansas Right to work state.
Why? Does it matter?
Utah SPEEA representation.
http://www.speea.org/Utah/Utah%20Salary%20Charts%202008.pdf
Still why does this matter? Right to work or not you still have legal recourse if unjustly fired and thats better than any $2.oo lottery ticket or union settlement.
Utah representation is 102 employees? Is this a statistically significant portion of engineering in Utah?
No!
The Oustie@the rally is correct. Atleast to the extent that I got real angry. Seems I have an anger management issue. It's bonfide now.Still I believe a lot of engineers would join under ther right circumstances. Currrently all they know of the Union is it's past. After they see the changes for themselves, things will be different.
John
I'll look, but I doubt it. Only Boeing as far as I know. Definately not a right to work state. Here in the rigght to work for low wages state of aAZ there is less than 10% total. We will change that law eventually. Then you'll see more Union and higher wages.
Your Post:
I would like someone to tell me about a bargaining unit of engineers (actual four-year degreed types) in a right-to-work state.
Can anyone find one?
John
//Utah representation is 102 employees? Is this a statistically significant portion of engineering in Utah?
No!//
You asked for examples not quantification.
Here is your original question.
//I would like someone to tell me about a bargaining unit of engineers (actual four-year degreed types) in a right-to-work state.
Can anyone find one?//
I answered and you negated it. Why?
It is a good example that the higher your skill the less likely you need or want union representation. Engineering staff is aware that they do not want any limitations on their wages unlike a socialistic run pay structure.
It's not socialistic, it's democraticic. Actually it is republician form of representation. The same sort of representation that this country is founded upon. Go ahead call me on that asshole. You if you were a member you'd get to vote for your choice of representive (DBR & negotiating committee member). You also get to vote for your sheriff, i.e. Steward. The representive that you vote for makes decisions that you get to vote on. They can only recomend or not. You get to decide, not them. That is far more democratic than our current form of government. So you think we are socialistic? look a little deeper shithead.
Joh,
Feeling kind of dirty, feeling kind of mean. I get to meet with a detective today. If five friggin sheriff cruisers wern't enought the other mmorning. Fucks actually had their hands on their guns for little old me. Fuck em and you.
I say bring it on, I love the fight.
Yea though I walk through the valley of death I will fear no eveil for I am the badest Mother Fucker in the valley. Marana PD and Pima county sheriffs aint got nothin on this STEWARD. Ifear not one on this earth. God yes, nothing else.I have been through the valley many a time my frined and walked out the other side. each time i get stronger yet.
Crqazy yes, I love it.
John
John? Anger management issues? Did someone in R mgmt finally get around to reading this blog?
It's not socialistic, it's democraticic. Actually it is republician form of representation. The same sort of representation that this country is founded upon. Go ahead call me on that asshole.
Do you know anything about political science? As a union member, you think you do, don't you? You should, but it's patently obvious you don't. See if you can explain in your own words the difference between a 'democraticic' and a 'republician' form of government.
It is a good example that the higher your skill the less likely you need or want union representation. Engineering staff is aware that they do not want any limitations on their wages unlike a socialistic run pay structure.
Look, time for simple math to prove that point right there!
Nationwide, there were 7.4 million scientists and engineers in the United States in 2005, representing 5 percent of the total labor force.
In 2005, ~65,000 engineers are in the state of Utah. 100 engineers unionized in a right-to-work state IS statistically insignificant! As a Cal Svc tech, you should be familiar with those terms.
Source of data? Utah Engineers 2005
So, let's look at something more relevant: Arizona Engineers 2005
U R Dolttz.Nev beat her, aho. Yep R mgnt N oth Did read. YEp Dip sh, I know Dem Vs Rewp GOV. I tok Em clas, Too sheep Dip. UR SO smt Shit H. Mi AgnR Real.
Wo M Me?
Another union member/steward in a downward spiral. Isn't it just great that the union protects these kind of people? If he goes postal at work blame the union for not policing their elected officials.
'd still like to ask all to remember this is still a PG rated blog. Please tone it down a notch.
I look back, they kept saying dont blog, post, you are out of control. You kep it up you will lose your job. Who give a f...
Did someone have a view of the future?
If you are a man you will do what you want. Not to hurt anyothers, just to spak your man mind.
For some people, alcohol fueled blogging just proves the point once again:
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. Proverbs 17:28
"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" - unknown.
(Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of
death, I shall fear no evil. For thou art with me. Thy rod and thy
staff, they comfort me. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life. Because I carry a big stick and Im the
meanest steward at Raytheon Tucson.)
Don't worry John's got your back, John will represent you just as if he was representing himself.
ch scripture. yea, hell yess. If you stand anywwhere near me as a friend. I will protect/\.
Really I fear nothining except GOD.
jo
Protection? From you?
Who's hungry for some good breakfast, orperhaps lunch is more you style?
John
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