Everyone should look at the Union Website and read "rumors #2".
It reads something like 'rumors can come from anyone with an axe to grind, so you should get all your info from us. We'll spoon feed you, never mind other opinions out there.' That of course is a paraphrase. Is the Union only worried about people with an axe to grind? Or is there another motive? Having absolute control of your mind right now is imperative. They must be capable of motivating a "riot" if need be, so they can use it to influence talks at the table. Do the ends justify the means?
I won't say that's a bad thing for the purpose of crowd motivation. But I feel compelled to speak about it, along with a few things that I heard Friday from at least a half dozen "orange shirt" wearers, and union members alike.
The rumors were about "medical take aways and poison 9-80s". They are the same exact stories I heard over and over again. I wound up telling three people after work today "Yea, I know, I've already heard" when they told me that the union said the exact same rumors to the membership over the past few contracts. Lots of people are onto this game. For those readers out there who have been employed at RMS for more than ten years, look back over your notes, or examine your own memory. 'Didn't this happen before?'
Does Mr. Guth actually look across the table and tell his counterpart "We intend to give you 9-80s, but with a poison pill attached". "We plan to make labor work 7 days a week, and Sundays will no longer be sacred". "We plan to remove seniority as you know it". "We plan to double your Medical".
What does anyone have to gain by releasing these kinds of rumors? Would the Company do it? Well, for one thing, the Company is not spreading rumors because of legalities. It could be considered an unfair labor practice. So that leaves the Union side. What would motivate them to do it? And why do they tell us to only listen to them...it sounds Orwellian to me. Again I ask, does the end justify the means?
Was there any real info released today? Or is it the same old cards played from an old deck of tricks that only comes out every three years? Does the company stand to gain from an angry mob of workers or the union? Why would the Union intentionally play with the minds of its supporters. Why would the Company want an angry mob manufacturing its products? Why would the Company say something as offensive to union bargainers at the beginning of negotiations?
Is this a complete ruse? Maybe none of this stuff was talked about at all! It might be the whole thing is made up. Maybe the purpose of fomenting anger within the worker population serves another purpose to the union. Who really knows. You will get closer to the truth if you examine what motivates each side. Who stands to gain from the released rumors so far? If they are false rumors, then you can ask yourself, is it OK to let them (whomever) to play with my mind? And if they would do that, what else are they willing to do? Is this good for me to go along with it?
Ponder this before the Strike Sanction Vote. Vote accordingly.
52 comments:
Why would you continue your bull crap and not get behind the union for the next month? Only one month of support is all that's asked instead of continually trying to drive a wedge into the union. You could continue after the negotiations and the results are in. You help no one especially yourself with your continued attacks on the union.
Truth is not an attack!
Support is earned, not given, right?
Earn the support of your detractors, bruddah!
That isnt an attack. It is an observation that looks into the finer details of the process. I took a step back from this whole thing and looked at the big picture.
If thats an attack, then feel free to counter attack and show why the Company is doing this all, and what they stand to gain by it. Post it for all to see! Thats why this blog is here now. And right now is the moment to talk about it. Not next month when the dust settles.
So lets have it! What is the company doing, and what do they have to gain by pissing off the workers? Please add analysis and motivational factors to your comments. Dont just use slogans. I am genuinely interested in your side of the story in all fairness.
Being a teabagger SP you should know how a group will rally its base. Anyone who followed the health care debate during the month of August saw classic examples of Republicans rallying their base to oppose health care reform.
Again you are only hurting yourself and others by continuing.
Here's a mind blower that'll leave you feelling numb. Dear Ousties, what could this organization do to earn your support? Please be honest, candid and reasonable.
"Dear Ousties, what could this organization do to earn your support? Please be honest, candid and reasonable."
Hmph.
'Too little, too late' will be one opinion.
A second might be 'Your organization is so screwed up that the only worthy thing to do might be to disband and start over."
There's a starting point for honest, candid and reasonable.
Others?
"Dear Ousties, what could this organization do to earn your support? Please be honest, candid and reasonable."
IAM could make huge strides by taking action on what we have complained about. 1st, fix wages. 2nd Rona. 3rd Merit Pay. 4th Real 9-80s, exactly like Engineers enjoy. I could go on, but why? OK, one more...Stop the hate against all the scabs. No, better yet, undo it. Fix what you broke. After that, there are some social teachings from this Union we would want to talk about, but for now, those are minor compared to the above items.
See, that isn't too tough. Not a bit unreasonable. I bet most of the members think those are good ideas. Its not too little nor too late. Lighten up.
So why did you change the subject? Whos gonna contradict the OP? Do you gotta stoop to the lowest denominator and make a teabagger comment? You are filthy, and have tea leaves on your chin.
You can't argue your side, or can you?. Can you come up with a few good points to contradict the post's original set of questions, or are you gonna go juvenile and make dirty comments again? Can you be honest, candid, and reasonable?
So why did you change the subject? Whos gonna contradict the OP? Do you gotta stoop to the lowest denominator and make a teabagger comment? You are filthy, and have tea leaves on your chin.
Don't be so delicate you sissy. SP wanted to know why some things are said to the group and I gave an example. If you don't like it I suggest you find another blog to read. SP knows why this is done because he has been a part of a tea party here in Tucson.
All this talk about teabaggers.
Republican this, rally your base that. Where is the Unions argument? What about all these rumors? These ARE the same rumors from years ago. Same crap, different contract. I dont know why you guys keep buying it.
Going to the TCC today?
Sanction a strike!
"Was there any real info released today? Or is it the same old cards played from an old deck of tricks that only comes out every three years?"
It sure is quiet out there.
It's quiet?
Nostradamus couldn't do a batter job in predicting what will happen next. It's all documented here for the world to see.
Quite sad to not even make the daily news rag, isn't it? Did you even have 700 there yesterday?
I thought they had "union pride"? "What part of union made don't you understand?" If they are "feeling squeezed" shoudn't they join in "solidarity"? I suppose the "100% attendance requested" on their flyer means they dont have 700 members, or half of them lack a "fighting machinist" attitude.
Now, here's a bit of troubling video to evaluate:
Obama & Kissing Union's A$$es
Purple-jacketed thugs at the end right there, huh?
One report says it was a dismal turn-out. Higher ups were angry for the lack of attendance. "We want all members to attend Sundays Meeting" was posted in bold letters on the web site. The union must be imploding! In '06 they had over 1240 voters at TCC. Yesterday was a max-capacity crowd of something over 500?! They barely got a quorum to show up for a sanction vote! The absentee voters will make up for it on Friday when they wear those red Union Pride shirts. You should have seen all the long faces at work today. What a sad lot they were. Before long they will blame Slim.
From the iam933.org site, Update #3; "Our biggest obstacle continues to be Non Bargaining Unit employees performing Bargaining Unit work. Your committee continues to battle with the company on this key issue. The company refuses to understand how important this is to our members; maybe it’s time we show them, let management know how important this is to our job security."
You want to keep salaried fingers off the hardware? Then you have to concentrate money on them. How about some financial impact? Its assembly's turn in the barrel. Pay your other workers, who's jobs are listed elsewhere on this blog. Assembly can't continue to run away with all the money and it not cost you bargaining unit work.
How about all the non union members working there that are receiving the same benefits as the Union members step up and join the Union? Make the company see that you are all on the same page. That you are all serious about these contract negotiations.
The company will not like it when they see a dramatic change in the bargaining unit numbers. Especially when they see that number going up.
You "ousties" keep saying you want things fixed. You want this and you want that. Join the Union and give your negotiators some real power at the table. Standing together as a strong united group. You keep saying that things are broken, well your not being a part of the bargaining unit is a problem as well.
Think about it. It's not asking much. And don't reply back about dues. That is a tired subject. You will and do pay dues all over the place. Consider it an investment in your future. In reality, that's exactly what it is.
Without a Union you would all be worse off. The company is not your friend. They do not care if you are doing the work or not as long as product keeps going out the door. They can and will find people to do your jobs, and probably for less as well. I bet there are plenty of people out of work in that area that would love to have your job for less money. After all, some money is way better than none.
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!
"In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining... We demand this fraud be stopped."
The quote above is from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. You see, things really haven't changed too much since then. Think about it!!!!!!
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!
To quote one of the more popular posters here lately:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hey, Jeff, remember this?
Seven Lies (again)
Give it up Jeff there is nothing anyone can say that will change any of the ousties minds. They want no part of any union at all. They talk about replacing the union with another but that is all it is. Their sole purpose is to vote out IAM933 and rely on the companies good grace to make more money.
Jeff, this sorry excuse for a local can't give away memberships to entice members.
That's how pathetic they are. You want us to help them?
"Their sole purpose is to vote out IAM933 and rely on the companies good grace to make more money."
Give that man a raise! Wait, he's a union member; maybe a gumball token instead!
""Their sole purpose is to vote out IAM933 and rely on the companies good grace to make more money."
Give that man a raise! Wait, he's a union member; maybe a gumball token instead!"
Their ignorance screams volumes.
""Their sole purpose is to vote out IAM933 and rely on the companies good grace to make more money."
Hold on there Hoss! Some of you guys asked us to cool it, and we did. SP hasn't written a scathing article for over a month. Some of us ousties even like unions, but this one sold us down the drink years ago.
Jeff, this Union has to buy us back! No words will undo what they did to us. Not "us ousties", but "us technical workers". The "non-assemblers" at RMS get fleeced. It is not in the Company's interest to over pay lower skills at the hiring detriment of higher skills. But the union brags about getting a "living wage" to the poor. This is what they mean. They take from us to give to them. You want us to pay for that???
Your request that we oustees join the union right now? Before they give us reason to? It's both counter productive and puts us in legal jepardy.
Membership Eligebility, Article I line 13 of the constitution goes something like: "....and providing further that said applicant does not advocate dual unionism, or support movements inimicable to the interests of the IAM, or its established laws and policies."
This makes us uneligable unless we are willing to tear down the web site, blogs etc. If we were to rebel while being members, we could be heavily fined or worse. So, from a freedom stand point, it is counter productive for us to join if our intent is to pressure the union to do well by the workers. I am not sure if you understand these finer points of Unionism, but rest assured, we do!
That brings us back to this union fixing their problems so they can win, no...earn our confidance and get some of us to quit fighting the union and fight for it. If the union wants our talents, then they simply have to earn it. If they reject us for the past, then so be it, the status quo is unchanged. Except one thing. Before, there wasn't an organized group that took a chance to speak out resulting in an RD attempt.
According to Slim's calculations, the Union cost me $16,660 last year, not counting overtime. Can Jeff explain to me why I should be thankfull for the benefits they bring me? I think the members should quit for grand theft!
What purpose does 'making sure the company sees we are on the same page' serve if the union redirects my pay toward other workers? I do not care if the company likes it or dont like it when they see a dramatic change in membership numbers. I want to see a dramatic shift in my pay. After that happens, we can talk about benefits the union got me.
Once again all I hear is the Union is to blame. There are two sides to every negotiation.
As I have stated before, the company are the ones that control the purse strings. The company knows what classifications are in the voting membership and those are the ones they target. And I would bet that the company will only include those in their Last, Best and Final. What do they have to lose? Should the Union membership vote to strike, the company already knows the number of non-members that will cross the picket line.
Now, if you were all in the Union the bargaining power of the Union has just increased exponentially. The number of classifications represented by the voting membership has just went up which in turn puts pressure on the company to do the right thing. Even a threat of a strike with a greater number of members would be enough to get the company's attention.
Your biggest problem is that you live in a "right to work for less" state. The split of the workforce works in the company's favor. It benefits the company, and NOT the workers.
That is the real issue!!!!!
Think about it! It only benefits you and your families in the long run. A stronger bargaining unit will far outweigh the cost of dues in the long run.
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!
"And I would bet that the company will only include those in their Last, Best and Final. What do they have to lose?"
Cxchange the word Union for Company, and you get closer to the truth. The company comes with a purse, true. but the union divies it up. And they do it to suit the needs of their business, period. Thats why so many heavily unionised classes are getting the shaft, because it doesn't pay the union to pay them. What does the union stand to loose by paying off itself this time? Maybe another union to take some of it's representational rights away.
The union collects its dues from everyone why would they care who is making what?
Its because they get more money from raising a low wage group to high wage than by raising all equally. There are what, 700 or so assemblers in the factory? You dont even have to do the math to figure that out.
Anonymous said...
"Cxchange the word Union for Company, and you get closer to the truth. The company comes with a purse, true. but the union divies it up. And they do it to suit the needs of their business, period."
Having been through a number of negotiations, I have yet to see this actually happen. There is no way the company allows the Union to decide who gets what and where the money goes. This sounds like pure ignorance to me.
Join today and stand united during negotiations. That is your best bet.
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!
The facts contradict you Jeff. It happens. Especially when a negotiator wants it to happen. Just because you didn't see it doesnt make it not so. The Company brings a purse. The union doesnt have control of the purse, but it has lots of say over where the contents go. Go ahead and try to deny it. I'll turn into the HAHA dude on ya! It seems your union raised wages evenly Jeff. Here, the wages were tinkered with. What was before a job to get promoted to, is now a job to run from, back to the job you left because it's worth more now. The differences are too big for this to be an accident. Just like you say, the Union isn't 100% to blame for this stuff, neither is the Company. There are TWO teams in that room, not just one.
"Join today and stand united during negotiations. That is your best bet."
I'll take the over-under on that bet, Jeff.
Superbia parti(animal) you are totally right, if there are agendas
by either side they should be brought forth, not performed in dark back rooms for only a few to see and hear. The negotiations should be put on the big screens
throughout the workplace, instead of cnn.
Anonymous said...
"Dear Ousties, what could this organization do to earn your support? Please be honest, candid and reasonable."
Hmph.
'Too little, too late' will be one opinion.
A second might be 'Your organization is so screwed up that the only worthy thing to do might be to disband and start over."
There's a starting point for honest, candid and reasonable.
Others?
Oct 10, 2009 9:03:00 PM
The only problem is the same people will fill the new slots in the new union.
I think if you got the right wages for technical skills ie. testers,
metrology, you would probably have them as members.
remember to goose step to superduper and then receive
a below par last, final and best
offer! gumball coins might soften the blow, though.
Anonymous said at Oct 15, 2009 10:11:00 AM
The only problem is the same people will fill the new slots in the new union.
Only if their occupation will allow it! With a segregated bargaining unit, only the members of the unit get to have a say.
Anonymous said at Oct 15, 2009 10:34:00 AM
I think if you got the right wages for technical skills ie. testers, metrology, you would probably have them as members.
As mis-managed as IAM933 is?
Oh, get back to work!
"Go ahead and try to deny it. I'll turn into the HAHA dude on ya!"
So the haha lunatic has been an oustie disguised all this time hmmm?
Goes to show you bastards can't be trusted!
"So the haha lunatic has been an oustie disguised all this time hmmm?"
That figures, some of you union dorks twist any humor into a whining complaint.
They identified the HAHA dude as a dude with no credit, no car, and no clearance.
I thought HAHA the union clown was Ramon. Ramon has a clearance. Who is this union freak?
I am who I am.
HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
98% of 50% to sanction a strike
100% of the 50% will be crossing
like the illegals do the Rio Grande
"98% of 50% to sanction a strike
100% of the 50% will be crossing
like the illegals do the Rio Grande"
Why am I not surprised at a comment like that?
"Why am I not surprised at a comment like that?"
Seriously, you have history on your side as your witness.
What will the other 50% do then,
go salaried? quit? mend their ways and repent of not being there Sunday for the vote. The future holds the truth that can't be denied, but can be explained away.
""Why am I not surprised at a comment like that?"
Seriously, you have history on your side as your witness."
Clueless, but again I'm not surprised.
"Anonymous said...
What will the other 50% do then,
go salaried? quit? mend their ways and repent of not being there Sunday for the vote. The future holds the truth that can't be denied, but can be explained away."
Oct 16, 2009 4:07:00 PM
Quitting would be a nice start, killing yourself would be better!
"Quitting would be a nice start, killing yourself would be better!"
Putting one more nail in IAM 933's coffin.
So if I was a member for 26 years
and decided that the strike was
not valid and I crossed because I can't afford to be without a job for even a day. You would say that to a ex brother or sister? Quit or kill ourselves. How about the staunch members that go salaried? Was there something wrong with the union that they had to leave? I hope this isn't the way you do things with your real flesh and blood families.
Im glad you selfish sissys finally opened your eyes and see that the company would not be generous out of their own good nature alone. We need numbers in the Union and that would represent power. Hopefully you all show support in numbers and don't be scared like you were in school as kids. You're grown ups now and you have to stand up for whats right. No more being cowards ok.
I really like reading back on the older posts and see how inaccurate they are. They're easy pickens.
"Sponge Bob's side sick said...
...We were lied to over and over and over, and everyone is gonna see just how bad the lies are come monday. There won't be "re-work", there won't be government rejections of product. You'll see for yourself. I'll take my chances in a dream world over chances with proven liers any day.
Sounds like someone is waking up and smelling the coffee!
Its LONG OVER DUE to get the union OUT of our lives! Too bad we must wait another 3 years! :(
I can't wait to see the look on some of the union members faces when they are being TRAINED by a salary worker! Oh how I wish I could have a camera for that one!!
Yes, a lot of union members are in for a "rude awakening" when they come back to work! I wouldn't doubt if a lay off is right around the corner!
Jan 18, 2007 1:57:00 PM"
Just who lied? I know for a fact the company lied. Ol Bob Lepore told quite a few fairy tales after we got back. There was alot of re-work. When they couldn't pass it off on the government inspector they used their political influence and he was sent to another program. They got their guy in who allowed them to pass the junk off and stick it in storage for us to fix later.
Looks like you'll have to wait another 3 years to try and get rid of us Unionists. But, perhaps since time has past, maybe you've relized the misconceptions you had back then.
I saw the look in your eyes when we came back. Yea, the salaried had to "retrain us", what a joke, our people know the job, it was as if the caboose was telling the engine what to do. That camera would have gotten you fired.
What happened to that layoff? How out of touch you really were back then. I really hope you have learned more since.
Anyway my intent here is not to put you or any one else down. It's just that it's time that we get together and do what's right. The Union isn't perfect, but it is the vehicle to get done what we all so much need being done.
John
Okay, I'll give it a break for now.
You're old post:
" HaHa the drunk burn barrel union clown has finally risen from his stupor. Have you save enough of the unions donations to get you through the strike? I think most of your savings already went to your buddies Jim Beam and Jack Daniels. When you dance around the burn barrel this time please don't walk or stumble into it. The last one was pretty beat up and had to be trashed. All was not lost though... It did provide some comic relief to those driving by. LOL!
Oct 29, 2009 3:50:00 PM"
Hey there, hold on a minute. I like my Wiskey, but not on the picket line. Me, I waited until I was home. DUI laws are way to rough on us now. And please don't put down those burn barrels, yes, they did stink and were way to smokey. All your clothes smelt like a campfire by the time you got back home. But, the warmth they provided during a cold assed freezing, rainy, sleet filled night while you were sleeping in your little cozy, warm bed, felt great.
I also thought it was funny too when the guy fell into the fire. Glad you got some comic relief at his expense. Just to let you know, he's doing fine and I think has gotten over his drinking problem.
I'll bet that there is more than one or two ousties & freeloaders that have been there too.
John
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