This morning there is a meeting down at the Union Hall. I recommend you go if you want to express your ideas to the committees before the negotiation period begins. Lots of things are on the table today. RONA, 9/80s, Medical, & Pay are a few. Ask a Steward to bring this page up before the meeting at Union Hall.
While I did my morning chores, I took advantage of an old contract I found laying around and used it to illustrate the differences in pay growth over the past decade & 1/2. To those who called me selfish, read it and weep. These are the cold hard facts. Everyone didn't get a fair shake over the past 16 years. Some fared better than others, some faired quite poorly.
Look at all the trades that got 150% increase or less, while one group stands out. I would like to say that Jeff's idea of everyone getting equal growth would have prevented a large part of the rebellion. Jeff is for Equal growth. What says he now? Does anyone dispute these numbers? Is the Union willing to rectify this problem, or perpetuate it?
My request is to adjust raise in pay of all classifications until the growth rate of each of them is equal on the far right column. Percentage of growth is the true measurement of how the Union treats all of its workers regarding pay. When one classification runs away with all the profits, it leaves the rest of us with a bitter taste. Let the numbers speak for themselves. I want no more, nor no less than whatever is needed to balance the percentage of gains throughout the entire labor force. I feel all would agree that is fair. Mr. Watson, can you return the relative pay to the way it was back in October of 1993?
Of course, these are not the only gripes I had with the Union over the past couple of years. But since there is an important meeting today, I decided that this is a good place to start. Now is the time so the truth can be discussed in an open forum with the leadership of the Local Lodge.
115 comments:
This is what pay would look like in 2009 if everyone got the 215% pay increase over the years.
40192 Assy Tech Support $38.70
40173 Cal Service Tech $33.325
40133 Prod Test Specialist $28.49
40093 Assembly Technician $21.54
40543 Fab Floor Sup.MechTool $38.70
40523 Prototype Tool & Die $35.475
40513 Metrology Technician $35.475
40503 Toolroom Machinist $32.25
40483 Prod Mach. Specialist $31.175
40443 Production Machinist $27.41
40763 Chemical Handler $29.02
40773 Material Handler $29.02
40703 WIPS $27.41
40813 Custodian $13.975
Does anyone think this is what pay would really be? No. But it sure puts things in perspective.
Of course this is but a sample of our job classifications. But these percentages go across the entire workforce.
So back in '93 Cal techs made $5 an hour more than assemblers and now you only make $4 an hour more. This is part of whats causing you to rebel? You are still the second highest paid occupation on the plant and your pay has risen 163%. That ain't bad.
Add the difference up through the years to get a long term perspective. The missing wages and lack of profit sharing make for a large sum of money we missed out of and will never get back. There is disparity wage increases and that is bad. That is why there is a rebellion. Ask your devout members if this is fair.
"Add the difference up through the years to get a long term perspective."
I've been red circled for many years myself so I know what you all have been going thru.
"The missing wages and lack of profit sharing make for a large sum of money we missed out of and will never get back."
Yes the missing wages we will not make up but the profit sharing is about $1000-1200 maybe? That money is gone on bills and other things quickly so I don't count that as a long term savings. Plus I've argued it before but RONA should not have to be bargained for. If a secretary or personal assistant is getting profit sharing I see no reason why the hourly should not get it either.
"There is disparity wage increases and that is bad. That is why there is a rebellion. Ask your devout members if this is fair."
Of course it's not fair but neither is life. Don't we teach this to our kids? The company has negotiated in such a way as to offer more money to a certain category in hopes of buying a contract. The contract is voted on by us the hourly. Each contract is the will of the majority.
"You are still the second highest paid occupation on the plant and your pay has risen 163%. That ain't bad." “The contract is voted on by us the hourly. Each contract is the will of the majority.”
Wrong, and Wrong. Do you mind backing up your statement? 163% is not 215%. When 1000 workers get 215% and the others 700 fall way short, it's caustic. Now tell me, is 4 or 5 dollars worth what it was back in '93? Do you have more schooling than a Cal Tech to say how much their labor is worth? I didn't think so.
And while you are regretting that foolish comment, go tell it to all those other trades that were screwed worse than the Cal Techs!
This Union needs to bring back the balance the way it was before. Look at all those trades, other than Cal Techs. Look at the numbers! This has been systematic stacking the deck over a number of contracts. Now call me selfish. I'm calling for two other occupations to get increases to a pay level higher than the Cal Techs. My agenda is equality for the worker. Who do you support? The business interest of the IAM?
It is an injustice that must be fixed. All the trades, and all the classifications need to read the same percentage of increase over all the years. The Union must fix this during THIS Contract.
The negotiators will go into a closed room and bargain. What comes out of that room is the only thing the membership ever votes on. So the membership had better pressure the Negotiation Crew to bargain with these factors in mind. They need to split the pie so that the wages are balanced to the way they were back then. Then they can proudly bring out that final offer and ask the people to vote.
“The company has negotiated in such a way as to offer more money to a certain category in hopes of buying a contract.” Sep 13, 2009 12:24:00 PM
There you go again blaming the company. We will not accept that. The Union will take responsibility. We will illustrate what happens, and let the people see the facts as they are. I have a career of hearing that “the company did it.” Not any more. If you can’t get the job done, then get out of office and let someone who can do the job take over your position.
Why did Metrology Technicians get 68 cents per dollar in pay increases compared to Assembly Technicians since 1993?
"Do you mind backing up your statement? 163% is not 215%."
Well I'm not sure how you back up that statement it's sort of a silly request. I believe i said 163% isn't too bad. It is what it is.
"I'm calling for two other occupations to get increases to a pay level higher than the Cal Techs."
Now I have been on this blog for only a couple months but I don't recall you mentioning two other occupations. I could be wrong so can you please point me to where you have made this argument for them.
"My agenda is equality for the worker."
Now I don't have your 2 years of colledge edukashun so I'm a bit dim but isn't that socialism?
"The negotiators will go into a closed room and bargain. What comes out of that room is the only thing the membership ever votes on"
You do realize the "company" and the union are in that same room working on a contract together right?
"There you go again blaming the company. We will not accept that."
Of course not you are beholden to the golden calf(Raytheon)
"If you can’t get the job done, then get out of office and let someone who can do the job take over your position."
You have no say in this because you do not belong to the union.
Lastly let me ask you this Willie. Say the union decided you cal techs should get a raise along with the other two occupations you didn't mention. Suppose they fought and the company said no dice. Would you be willing to go on strike or at least fight for what you feel you deserve?
"Say the union decided you cal techs should get a raise along with the other two occupations you didn't mention. Suppose they fought and the company said no dice. Would you be willing to go on strike or at least fight for what you feel you deserve?"
Hmmm...fight has been happening for three years now, hasn't it?
I'll cut you a break, you've only been here a short while. Click on the picture to the Original Post, and save it as a picture. Then compare those numbers in the picture to the ones at the top of this page. (This is what pay would look like in 2009 if everyone got the 215% pay increase over the years.)
Compare the fair scale of wages (215% for all) to the actual wage gains made by the occupations on the plant. Actual increases wouldn’t have been 215% average, but this is a good number to use as a comparison. It's not hard to see what workers have gotten the shaft. In there, you will see my honest evaluation of where the wages have gone wrong.
See for yourself what jobs I recommend to get a pay raise over and above the Cal Techs. Even the Custodians would be making 2 & 1/2 bucks more than they do now if the 215% pay raise was across the board! This discussion should have happened in 2008 when I was asking the union leaders to come on our sites and talk.
I've been complaining for a long time, but I was called greedy among other things. Maybe I should have posted this data sooner. But I didn't, and that's over. I failed to illustrate good enough why I thought wages were broken, so I got insulted. For now I choose to work with the Union to correct the past.
I expect the Union to share with all represented workers the information concerning the upcoming negotiations. They have the right to represent us all. So they are obligated to represent all. This is a reminder. Last time there was an information blackout. That was a mistake. I am keeping a record. Are you?
To the post at 4:42pm: If fair wages were the agenda all these years, then you trolls would never have heard of my name. You can say socialism all you want, but you broke it, and the rest of us are just now learning how bad. If you know how to handle the idea I submit here, the Company will have no problem accepting the changes.
If the Union makes a bad offer, the Company will reject it. I’m going to wait to see if the Negotiation Team will even try. Every Union Member who is in a ripped off classification needs to push the buttons and make their voices heard. You asked if I would be willing to fight for…Do you have any idea of what fight I have had over the past couple of years?
"See for yourself what jobs I recommend to get a pay raise over and above the Cal Techs."
You don't really recommend any other classification get paid more all you did was post everyone's pay had they received a 215% raise.
"I expect the Union to share with all represented workers the information concerning the upcoming negotiations. They have the right to represent us all."
Here I strongly disagree. They have the right to represent you much as you have chosen to exclude yourself from the union. Just like poker you have to pay to see the cards. Now if the union decides to share info then fine I will accept that.
"If the Union makes a bad offer, the Company will reject it."
Can you clarify this statement please. Because the two sides might have different ideas on what a bad offer is. And that includes more than just pay.
"You asked if I would be willing to fight for…Do you have any idea of what fight I have had over the past couple of years?"
Here you just dodged my question nice job. The last 3 years is not what I'm asking. Are you willing to fight against the company for what you believe is rightfully owed you?
“…all you did was post everyone's pay had they received a 215% raise.”
I explained what everyone’s pay level should be, relatively speaking. Read the charts. Take it for face value. Do I have to explain it further?
“Now if the union decides to share info then fine I will accept that.” Ditto, I’m counting on it.
“If the Union makes a bad offer, the Company will reject it." “Can you clarify this statement please. Because the two sides might have different ideas on what a bad offer is.”
I expect the Negotiation Team has prepared for this. Everything depends on what they are willing to trade. I feel comfortable that most of the suggestions I made are sought by the Company as well…and NO, I am not in cahoots with HR. It’s a simple question of redistribution of the pay raises until everyone gets the same outcome, percentage-wise.
Earlier someone said my idea sounded…”socialist”. Not exactly. Just because my ideas are fair, doesn’t make them unpalatable or socialist. A perfected idea of what I seek takes into account the fair market value of each of our skills at the plant site. The workers who got 215% wage increases did so at the cost of putting some workers below the fair market value for their skill. That is unfair.
“Are you willing to fight against the company for what you believe is rightfully owed you?”
When the day comes again that I would walk the strike line again, I will take my talent elsewhere. I stood on the blue line with…perhaps yourself without knowing that later I would have taken this path. I fought the Company in ‘06, and I was wrong. I fought the Union since, and lost. How long do I have to keep fighting?
“Are you willing to fight against the company for what you believe is rightfully owed you?”
When the day comes again that I would walk the strike line again, I will take my talent elsewhere. I stood on the blue line with…perhaps yourself without knowing that later I would have taken this path. I fought the Company in ‘06, and I was wrong. I fought the Union since, and lost. How long do I have to keep fighting?
Sep 13, 2009 8:57:00 PM
Your fight (How long do I have to keep fighting?) is NOW OVER you have my permission to leave and go elsewhere. Sincerely Mr. Guth
What SP is babbling about will never get posted, but I think if you look at the percentage figures posted, then compared to the percentage of those in the individual occupation that are paying dues to IAM, I think you'd see a similar outcome.
NOBODY here has the juevos to state that in public. THAT is the inequitable equation; face it, we figured it out!
If everyone was in Cal Svc, would they have received the same ~215% of pay raises since 1993 that Assy did?
What % of members is Assy, anyway 60%, 70%?
That's what's wrong; you claim to represent all in the bargaining unit; your organization continues to fail at this.
What is the number one benefit that's bargained for in this endeavor? Wages, right?
When does this bargaining take place? I'll give you your answer, since you'll think I don't know. It's the LAST thing that's bargained for, not the first thing.
Why is that?
Superbia Parti said...
“Are you willing to fight against the company for what you believe is rightfully owed you?”
When the day comes again that I would walk the strike line again, I will take my talent elsewhere."
Sep 13, 2009 8:57:00 PM
If that's all it takes to gey rid of you I say strike now!
"“…all you did was post everyone's pay had they received a 215% raise.”
I explained what everyone’s pay level should be, relatively speaking. Read the charts. Take it for face value. Do I have to explain it further?"
No you don't but when you make the statement that you "recommended" two other classifications get raises then you are making misleading statements. Like I said all you did was post what everyones pay would be if they had a 215% raise. See I don't think you care what others make. IMO you were out for your own occupation and NOW you want to help others.
"I feel comfortable that most of the suggestions I made are sought by the Company as well…and NO, I am not in cahoots with HR. It’s a simple question of redistribution of the pay raises until everyone gets the same outcome, percentage-wise."
I think you completely underestimate "what the company wants". The company does not care about fair but again that is my own opinion.
"When does this bargaining take place? I'll give you your answer, since you'll think I don't know. It's the LAST thing that's bargained for, not the first thing.
Why is that?"
The company steers it this way so there is less time and it's done in a rush. IMO
" IMO you were out for your own occupation and NOW you want to help others."
You deny the rest of us who fought along side of SP? Just because he wrote about it, doesnt mean the rest of us don't agre with him. He was always for fixing the pay inbalance for everyone. You chose not to see it.
"I think you completely underestimate "what the company wants". The company does not care about fair..."
The Company wants to pay fair market value for each of the workers. Economics 101, supply and demand. The formula is just a rough guess of what it takes to get back to fair market values. Anyone should be able to see that. The best pay would include merit pay, and other incentives.
And while we are talking fair pay. Why not separate the inspectors from the assemblers, and the EETs from the testers again? What good did that do lumping them together?
"You deny the rest of us who fought along side of SP? Just because he wrote about it, doesnt mean the rest of us don't agre with him. He was always for fixing the pay inbalance for everyone. You chose not to see it."
So since he didn't maybe you can show me where he spoke specifically about other occupations. I'm a johnny come lately.
"Why not separate the inspectors from the assemblers, and the EETs from the testers again? What good did that do lumping them together?"
Ask HR I believe they were part of negotiations to but I could be wrong. Seems you guys think the Union makes all the decisions in negotiations.
Not knowing how things are done at your site I can not comment on the pay issue. I do know that where I work the Union negotiates a wage increase for all. Our classifications are put into labor grades, the more schooling required, the higher labor grade you are in. So an example would be a 5% wage increase for all labor grades. I looked back and from '92 to present, all labor grades are up 175%. Or close enough to all be considered equal.
Now, during a negotiations the company has wanted to take a classification and move them up into the next higher labor grade, but that really doesn't count as a wage increase. Besides, they usually try that at the end of negotiations in order to "buy" the contract.
I do have to question Slim's motives though. Now he wants "equality" for all. I believe the last time I mentioned that he called me a socialist and/or a communist. You can not have it both ways, Slim. Why the change of heart?!?!?!?!?
I have said from the start, a strong, united bargaining unit is what is going to get you the most in a negotiation. If the company even has a slight inkling that you are divided, they will attempt to run all over you.
You MUST stand together as a united bargaining unit in order to be successful. You MUST join the Union and together you can get what it is you want out of negotiations. Will it be easy? NO! Will it be worth it in the end? Join the Union and find out....
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!
"NOBODY here has the juevos to state that in public. THAT is the inequitable equation; face it, we figured it out!"
Urban Dictionary: juevos
juevos - 2 definitions - Spanish for eggs, also slang for testicles.
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=juevos
EGGS??! You can't just balls and in spanish even??!! You guys are too stooooooopid to get a raise. Where did ju guys get edchukated anyway? China? No wait........ I'm sorry Chinese don't deserve to be lumped min witchoo morons!
I HOPE YOU DUMB ASS SONS O' BITCHES DON'T GET JACK SHIT! I'D RATHER LOSE MONEY AND HAVE TO TAKE A CUT IN PAY AND POSITION THAN SEE ANY OF YOU BASTARDS GET A PENNY MORE,YOU PRICKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! EAT ME BIG BOY!!!!!!
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215% OF JACK SHIT= I HOPE YOU DUMB ASS SONS O' BITCHES DON'T GET JACK SHIT! I'D RATHER LOSE MONEY AND HAVE TO TAKE A CUT IN PAY AND POSITION THAN SEE ANY OF YOU BASTARDS GET A PENNY MORE,YOU PRICKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! EAT ME BIG BOY!!!!!!
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"How long do I have to keep fighting?"
SHIT BOY!! YOU AIN'T SEEN NUTHIN YET!!! I HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN TO GET WARMED UP. YOU WANTED FIGHTING??? GET READY BIG BOY CAUSE YOU IS ABOUT TO GET A TASTE OF THE BIGGEST ASSHOLE IN THE WORLD!!!!
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AND BEFORE YOU GO SHOOTIN OFF YOU BIG ASS MOUTH ABOUT HOW IMMATURE THIS IS GUESS WHAT..... I LEARNED IT FROM YOU, I JUST SAY THE SHIT YOU AIN'T GOT THE BALLS TO FUCK FACE!
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Diarrhea of the brain right there - amazing!
After a refreshing discussion this HAHA idiot has to go and ruin it. Didn't this idiot learn in high school about debating and proper manners? I guess you would have to go to high school in the first place to have this knowledge. He should have been taught this in juvenile detention.
Wow, so much filth coming from a Union Treasurer. He must be scared I am getting the truth, and it hurts. I feel his pain. Union officer going postal! But this time I will leave his vulgar rantings up for all to see. It looks worse to his membership than to us. What an example of Union Leadership and Dignity.
Jeff had a comment that made more sense. I prefer the Jeff types to the Vulgar types.
"I looked back and from '92 to present, all labor grades are up 175%. Or close enough to all be considered equal." Your union did raise pay fairly and equitably across the board. Our union has stacked the deck for one class. It is staggering, the injustice.
"I believe the last time I mentioned that he called me a socialist and/or a communist. You can not have it both ways, Slim." Thanks for paying attention, Jeff. I guess since I ranted so much about socialism, you're gonna take every pot-shot against me you can. OK...I'm game. Have fun. But you know I'm right, you've said it in other responses that across the board raises are just and fair.
After recently publishing documents that show how bad things are, my motives are in question. Just because what I ask for is even for all doesn't make it socialist. It just so happens that the fair market and equal value come to the same numbers here. This union should have been adjusting the wages evenly across the board all these years, just like your union. Ours didn't. It heavily favored one occupation, and for the rest of the bargaining unit...well, you figure it out. Is there any question why we rebelled?
Numbers don't lie. I haven't gotten a population chart of workers here, but when I do, I plan to show just what true wages we could have shared if we had all gotten an equal raise over the years. This is going to be heartbreaking for the union members in the unrepresented classes. This is going to be a embarrassment for the union leaders who participated in these unfair raises.
"Will it be worth it in the end? Join the Union and find out...." Jeff, you must come up with a better motion picture suspense line than that old stomach turner! Come On! I want to hear something more like; "Come join the Union and make the changes you demand NOW!" "Your brothers are waiting for you!" Etc. Of course, there are no brothers waiting for me there. I have no illusions. But your pep talk ended with a fizzle. I'm just being realistic.
To the requestor for the dates I had issued statements about unfair wages, check out the August 4th, July 23rd, July 5th posts that I made. Not to mention the statements that clogged up the comment lines since. They all occurred before the petition was over. I probably would have done better had I come out with these supporting figures earlier. But I did make comments that are backed up by these numbers. Over the years there have been varying conversations about wage imbalances in the union all over Raytheon. We just made it a "wake-up" call. If you are in an occupation other than Assembler, you probably are feeling short changed right now, unless your name is Ramon. He said he would rather get a pay cut and a position cut than to see anyone else get a penny. What a sad man he must be. We should keep him in our prayers.
Back to the 9/80 discussion:
See, it IS possible!
Minnesota is a Forced-Unionism state, by the way.
If it can happen at Boeing, it can happen at Raytheon!
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2009/sep/14/boeing-co-employees-vote-to-disband-union/
http://regulus2.azstarnet.com/comments/index.php?id=309096
OMG! That HAHA guy is having a nuclear meltdown. Someone should find out who that is and turn them into Security before he hurts himself. Whomever owns this site sorry to tell you you're not a trendsetter. I was present during the converstation in 1998 when a group of testers went to Bobby Martinez and asked him why the union wouldn't let them out since they ""Couldn't"" fight for us because we only had 30% in the union. Eleven years later the techs are still hearing the same ol' song and dance. I'm just sitting back and watching this union with their 19th century politics commit suicide trying to negotiate with a 21st century company. Hang in there people this union is going to self destruct all by itself it doesn't need any help from you. If you want people to join then you have to treat them right. IAM is not capable of doing that. They just don't get it. Really sad.
"Back to the 9/80 discussion:
See, it IS possible!
Minnesota is a Forced-Unionism state, by the way."
No one said it couldn't be done. It's just that "everyone" has to take it.
I heard rumors that testers wantd out then too. Thank SP and Committee. You guys broke the ice. The union better straiten out, maybe they can stay around. If not, who knows? Wheres my 9 dollars an hour? thats how much Im missing. I aint no cal tech. Show me the money.
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:b4RTPjFc2vgJ:www.houstontx.gov/flexworks/tools/workshifts-boeing.doc+COLLECTIVE+BARGAINING+AGREEMENT+and+9/80&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
4. In order to maintain compliance with the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requirements, nonexempt employees working a 9/80 work schedule will NOT be allowed to redistribute (flex) their hours.
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:b9OVJ08vFz0J:www.ibew1245.com/NV_Energy/Attachment_III_12-hour_shift.pdf+COLLECTIVE+BARGAINING+AGREEMENT+and+9/80&hl=en&gl=us
The work week will be comprised of four (4) 10 hour days during the hours of 0600 through 1700
with a half hour unpaid lunch. The flexibility in hours will account for the different start and end
times as required for the different headquarters and or locations. The 10-hour day with lunch will
be considered the groups “regular work day”
as it applies in ((ALL)) sections of the Collective
Bargaining Agreement
unless stated otherwise herein. The company and the union agree that
present work week start and end times as applicable with the 168 hour work week according to the
different plant needs will be accepted.
"I heard rumors that testers wantd out then too. Thank SP and Committee. You guys broke the ice."
Yeah thanks you guys ! Without you the world would stop turning. Now go see what you can do with the politicians in D.C.
God knows if you can fix everything here certainly you can solve world hunger and cure cancer too.
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"God knows if you can fix everything here certainly you can solve world hunger and cure cancer too."
God knows you are just an insane clown. You haven't lifted a finger to do anything positive. Too stupid to do something creative. Too gross to care what you think. Go crawl back under a rock and finish your GED.
"God knows you are just an insane clown. You haven't lifted a finger to do anything positive."
Maybe so but I have not gone out of my way to get ahead at the exspense of everyone else you selfish slimeball.
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If the HAHA guy would just go take a Midol and get out of the way here maybe some of us could actually have an intelligent debate. For those saying just get in the union and fix it from the inside here is the problem...
The testers, cal techs won't join the union because the union doesn't fight for them. The union won't fight for the tester, cal-techs because they don't belong to the union. The testers, cal techs won't join the union because the union doesn't fight for them. The union won't fight for the tester, cal-techs because they don't belong to the union. The testers, cal techs won't join the union because the union doesn't fight for them. The union won't fight for the tester, cal-techs because they don't belong to the union. On and on it's been like this for nearly two decades. Why doesn't someone in this union open a dialogue with these people or hell just take a survey to find out what they want in order to join. Is that too complicated. Would love to hear from Jeff on this.
http://www.workforce.az.gov/cgi/dataanalysis/oesWageReport.asp?menuchoice=OESWAGE
I heard a rumor "Jimbo" Watson was banned from the Raytheon plant. True or false? Can any steward answer? why?
Ramonlobo the Clown would prefer to work for the 1993 wages.
LoboBush! I found a video of you doing a press conference!
HAHAHA! HA!
"On and on it's been like this for nearly two decades. Why doesn't someone in this union open a dialogue with these people or hell just take a survey to find out what they want in order to join. Is that too complicated."
You've answered your own (rhetorical) question, friend.
Tough to outsmart those individuals that could be intellectually superior; same reason why they've not unionized any of the engineering staff.
Tell me again what this 'tax' is for? The betterment of all workers? Prove your theory!
"On and on it's been like this for nearly two decades. Why doesn't someone in this union open a dialogue with these people or hell just take a survey to find out what they want in order to join. Is that too complicated."
That survey had been taken! #1 answer was "why should I Pay or join when I get the same benefits for free"
Let me enlighten you those free benefits were negotiated by the union which others have paid for. Now if you want to argue this and say our negotiators don't do anything for us...than why doesn't the company give more to those who aren't members?
Whatever your lame arguement or reasoning is , it boils down to this those who are not members are freeloaders because they are too damn cheap to pay their fair share. they probably cheat on their taxes too. Let me save you the trouble...YES I AM a Union member not a freeloading leech who pisses and moans like you litle babies. No I could care less if you joined or not and YES I too would take a cut in pay to see that you asses get nuthin!
I don't think you understand there Hoss. Our pay is screwed compared to others. All the Metrology Technicians are in the Union. I work on the most accurate shit on the plant. Look at our pay vs the Assemblers for 16 years. That's BS. I pay for my representation. I'm pissed about this. This is begining to look like shit.
Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2311: "Whatever your lame arguement or reasoning is , it boils down to this those who are not members are freeloaders because they are too damn cheap to pay their fair share. they probably cheat on their taxes too. Let me save you the trouble...YES I AM a Union member not a freeloading leech who pisses and moans like you litle babies. No I could care less if you joined or not and YES I too would take a cut in pay to see that you asses get nuthin!"
The only thing that can be plus or minus zero percent is the logic that you just showed us. You're the cream of the crop?!
Thursday, September 17, 2009 0009: "All the Metrology Technicians are in the Union. I work on the most accurate shit on the plant. Look at our pay vs the Assemblers for 16 years. That's BS. I pay for my representation. I'm pissed about this. This is begining to look like shit."
Another member who got the memo! Apparenly, no, not all of the Cal Svs Techs are card-carrying members.
You're not getting paid what you're worth; most of us technical types aren't getting that consideration.
Welcome to a dose of reality! Give yourself a raise; quit the union today!
To HAHA LOBO the CLOWN: Why should I pay or join this union and for what benefits? Until this union brings back rona, re-adjust pay levels for all occupations, and provides its own merit I will not pay or join this union. There are union members now contemplating getting out during the contract period, why? Do they know something you don’t? I don't consider it being cheap not joining your sect, why pay for something in which you receive nothing in return? And I won’t join for your comradery or brotherhood; with an extended family like yours I will be out of money in a short time. You are the same type person as the blood sucking tick of a distant relative that you would go out of your way to avoid. No I don’t want your free shirt since in reality it is not free and will take a year to pay off. And I hope you get your wish with your demotion and cut in pay you deserve it.
That survey had been taken! #1 answer was "why should I Pay or join when I get the same benefits for free"
Let me enlighten you those free benefits were negotiated by the union which others have paid for. Now if you want to argue this and say our negotiators don't do anything for us...than why doesn't the company give more to those who aren't members?
The two dozen testers I asked to join the Union said "NO because the union doesn't fight for us" One tester said the dues are too high.
The company doesn't give more to people who are not in the union because the union won't let them. Check out that fact on your own. This union kept Raytheon from giving the hourly workforce who traveled to Texas a 10% increase in pay for the duration of the travel. Why would a union do that? Well according to Bobby Martinez it was because the company didn't offer the increase to the entire bargaining unit. TRUE STORY. Meanwhile all the salary folks on travel got the 10% increase. And your question was why doesn't the company give more to people not in the union right?
The company is not even allowed to give more to people in the union. Fair and Equal for all remember?
"The testers, cal techs won't join the union because the union doesn't fight for them. The union won't fight for the tester, cal-techs because they don't belong to the union. The testers, cal techs won't join the union because the union doesn't fight for them. The union won't fight for the tester, cal-techs because they don't belong to the union. The testers, cal techs won't join the union because the union doesn't fight for them. The union won't fight for the tester, cal-techs because they don't belong to the union. On and on it's been like this for nearly two decades. Why doesn't someone in this union open a dialogue with these people or hell just take a survey to find out what they want in order to join."
"All the Metrology Technicians are in the Union. I work on the most accurate shit on the plant. Look at our pay vs the Assemblers for 16 years. That's BS. I pay for my representation. I'm pissed about this. This is begining to look like shit."
I give up! You Win! cal techs won't join, all the metrology(cal) tech's are in the union. There are 75 cal techs according to the metrology k drive and 30 are members but "all" are members, but none will join, I'm too dizzy of getting the run around and my head hurts from banging it on the brick wall!
Sorry Jeff looks like it will be just you and the haha dude. I'm not wasting my time here ever again.
40173 Cal Service Tech
40513 Metrology Technician
"All the Metrology Technicians are in the Union."
"I give up! You Win! cal techs won't join, all the metrology(cal) tech's are in the union."
"I'm not wasting my time here ever again."
Reading is a skill that all don't learn by the sixth grade. If you can't read, nor understand words, then you don't have an argument. That guy said he's a Metrologist, not a Cal Tech!!!!!!!!!
Those are two different jobs people! Go back and read it again.
"Let me enlighten you those free benefits were negotiated by the union which others have paid for. "
Do you really think some guy with three college credits can do a better job representing me than I can? I am worth $100 a week more than the union got me. See the post: Sep 16, 2009 5:34:00 PM
So what free benefit does anyone get? Pay for or no pay for, it's all the same crap. If you aren't an Assembler, you don't get represented!
"The two dozen testers I asked to join the Union said "NO because the union doesn't fight for us" One tester said the dues are too high. "Sep 17, 2009 4:27:00 PM
Fuck you....youare anti union why would you ask anyone to join? Lying Bitch!
"The company doesn't give more to people who are not in the union because the union won't let them. Check out that fact on your own. This union kept Raytheon from giving the hourly workforce who traveled to Texas a 10% increase in pay for the duration of the travel. Why would a union do that? Well according to Bobby Martinez it was because the company didn't offer the increase to the entire bargaining unit. TRUE STORY. Meanwhile all the salary folks on travel got the 10% increase. And your question was why doesn't the company give more to people not in the union right?
The company is not even allowed to give more to people in the union. Fair and Equal for all remember?"
Sep 17, 2009 4:27:00 PM
I'll be sure to remind you of your own quote here: "the company is not allowed to" when you whine and cry because you can't "individually" get 9/80! Asshole!
I am still trying to get an answer as to why you "ousties" blame the Union for the pay issues?????? Why do you think it was the Union's idea? Were any of you there to witness it firsthand?????
The negotiations I have been through there was never a doubt that any/all wage increases were to be given to all bargaining unit employees. So every person got a 5% wage increase for example. Towards the end of a negotiations, the company has started to offer certain classifications labor grade increases in order to "buy" the contract.
I hear you are paid for certain classes you take or something along those lines? Care to explain this to me please? Anyone? Slim, why don't you give it a shot.
I will try to wait patiently....
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!
Do you, or do you not stand for equal pay within the guidelines you mention in the past, Jeff? It’s not fair to answer a question with a question, I know, but our Union has gotten fantastic raises for only one classification of worker here, the Assembler. We blame the Union because the math tells us to. Math doesn’t lie, and if you are looking for a problem to solve, follow the money trail. The Company is interested in keeping the ability to hire workers, and pay a low total average wage per worker, plant wide (within reason). The rest, it could care less. It just wants low overall payout for its labor needs. Any decent union would spread the wages evenly out over the entire workforce within reason, like you said previously. This one concentrated the wage increases over just ONE job code. Screw the Cal Techs for a second. What about the Metrologists?! The market rates here support my hypothesis.
The Union's idea is revealed simply by doing the math. Assemblers are the lion's share of workers. The wages were good for that field, but not the best in the plant. Many jobs paid better. But a decade & 1/2 ago, there were a few changes around here. Since then, the numbers have stacked up in favor of Assemblers. If 70% of the Assemblers are in the Union, and 100% of the Metrologists are in it, do the Metrologists get better compensation? NO! They got ripped off. There are others who can explain this phenomenon better then myself. But it’s a blatant rip off, and everyone knows it’s true.
It doesn't matter the percentage of the membership in each class to the union. What matters is the amount of money the IAM933 can make by getting max dues each month. To a small extent, this is justifiable. After all, they are providing a service. And they may wish to compensate those who patronize the business. The problem is, there are workers that would join if they had been represented in the past. Lots of others pay dues, looking for their representation. Many of us left after we had been tricked one too many times. Metrologists (not Cal Techs) “to the last one” are true die-hard members. They got snorkeled! Their pay is 46% higher than when a house cost $55,000 and gas was $1.33! Cal Techs get 63% more than in ‘93, and Testers get 71% more. Custodians get 74% more. Nobody wages doubled except Assy. They more than doubled.
The late “buy the contract” move by the Company is easily avoidable by a skilled negotiator, if this is the case. The Union man simply tells the Company to split the bid across the entire BU, and return the balance. This will buy a contract even better, and maybe even convince some of us Oustees that they have reformed. This week, I heard six suggestions to form a technicians union, and split the labor pool. Jeff, would you suggest Jimbo fix the wages here if you knew he risked another union coming in and splitting IAM933 apart? Some of us Oustees are pro-union, but were simply against this union. Some Union Members have had talks with Pro Union Oustees and have been cooking up an idea to take the skilled trades and make their own union, if the Oustees will join the effort. What should the union do to pacify the tradesmen and save their domain? Would I serve the tradesmen better to join the new union? Or should Jimbo rally the union to reconcile with us Oustees to make a stronger single BU?
There is a “CEP” program you ask about. Increase pay for school was true, but now for the past couple contracts, it only pays a bonus for a certificate completion. No more wage hikes. People used to get a raise by qualifying to fill a job position. Now they must fill it to get paid. They still get a one-time bonus for achievement. I hope that answers your question.
"Metrologists (not Cal Techs) “to the last one” are true die-hard members."
Willie Stubbs, Keith Rollinson, Gary Leatherman, Doug McKinney, Pat Coyne, Fred Martin, Rick Higginson just to name a few of you, are CAL Tech's NOT Metrologists so kiss my A$$ and back on your knees boys!!!!
To the poster naming names, you know nothing you semen stain. Those guys you named are t shirt wearers. Do you know who is talking with SPEEA and the Teamsters? The orange shirt guys dont. They are out of the loop. This union has six weeks to straighten out or another union is getting the invite. By 2012, it will be all over. We complained for years. SP, Willie, Gary and the rest of them started a revolution. But they are new to this and didn't handle it right. They can't stop us now. The pro union wing of the oustees just told those guys that. They know jack. You know even less.
"To the poster naming names, you know nothing you semen stain. SP, Willie, Gary and the rest of them started a revolution. But they are new to this and didn't handle it right. They can't stop us now. The pro union wing of the oustees just told those guys that. They know jack. You know even less."
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
We started some shit and got people mad at us now they call us names and make fun of us boooo hooooo hooooo! You boys started this shit just hope you can stand the heat cause you are fixin to be set on fire! OH YEAH!!!!!!!!
I would suggest you learn a thing or two about how negotiations works there at your site. You blame the Union for everything, yet you have no idea how things go during negotiations. Or how things have gone in the past. I can assure you that the majority of wage increases were not done by the Union. You have to remember, the company is the one holding the money bag. Not the Union.
Remember, you work in a right to work for less state, so the company knows how many people to expect to cross a picket line in the event of a strike. That is your biggest issue that you all should be dealing with. Joining the Union and standing together during negotiations is what will tell the company how serious the workers are there. Until that happens, the company will continue to do what they have been doing. Any Union that is there representing you will face the same issues all stemming from a lack of Union membership and the number of people willing to cross the picket line. All Unions have dues, and that is one of the biggest gripes I see on this site. So no matter what Union you are with, there will still be dues.
So, the answer really does lie with the workers there. They need to join the Union, stand together and let the company know they are serious and will not be crossing any picket lines. If the company knows this, negotiations will be different.
Once again, I am not so sure the Union is broken there. I really do believe that the issues all stem from the lack of membership.
I suggest you all join the Union, stand together and see what happens. Give it a shot. What do you have to lose?
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I would suggest you learn a thing or two about how negotiations works there at your site. You blame the Union for everything, yet you have no idea how things go during negotiations."
You keep making that assumption. We blame the union for what it has done. Do the math like SP says. And with crazies in the union like the HAHA dweeb, who wants to belong to that? He has a serious mental problem. Go see a shrink HAHA dude.
Jeff: "Once again, I am not so sure the Union is broken there. I really do believe that the issues all stem from the lack of membership."
You're not here; you're not reading what's being posted on the union pages; you can't justify a comment like "I am not so sure the Union is broken there."
This local is broken; the people in it are concerned for ONE occupation that has 2/3'rds of their membership.
Therefore, it IS broken, when they make comments about not 'wanting' to fully represent an occupation that's not in the union.
Can't have it both ways, I guess.
"It pays to plays", huh?
"Do you know who is talking with SPEEA and the Teamsters? The orange shirt guys dont. They are out of the loop. This union has six weeks to straighten out or another union is getting the invite. By 2012, it will be all over. We complained for years."
Oh, wait, where have I heard this song before?!
We'll have a technicians union to handle the higher-skilled bargaining unit members.
No, no, no.
Dropped on your head again, I see.
Anon posted""We'll have a technicians union to handle the higher-skilled bargaining unit members.
No, no, no.
Dropped on your head again, I see.""
To Anon. You must not be skilled enough to understand that either no union or another union is required for higher skilled labor positions. You say "no no no"; with such words of denial you must be easily swayed, most likely by Watson. Speea was contacted. I think some other unions were too. You can thank your local 933 for suggesting Speea. It was published on your union website awhile back. Speea looks like a more viable union with lower dues. To Lobo HA HA the Sad Clown; HA-HA times infinity!
A little vid of me having dinner. Portrayed by David Hasselhoff.
Enjoy
HA HA
Oust933 tutorial
.....and posters hang throughout the plant, including one depicting SPEEA as a wolf in sheep's clothing reading, "Not all things are as they appear."
Isn't it odd that International Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers only represents 80,000?
Their closest representatives are in San Francisco and Kansas? What makes this group believe they can support any better than IAM???
"Their closest representatives are in San Francisco and Kansas? What makes this group believe they can support any better than IAM???"
By dividing the labor pool, the IAM will no longer take dues from classes they don't represent. Those dues will go to the organisation that fights for them to get fair and equitable raises. The IAM represents the Assemblers. Non union workers will join for a change because it wont be business as usual. If the international association of assemblers local 933 start to represent us for a change, we can turn down the offer from speea.
" This union has six weeks to straighten out or another union is getting the invite. By 2012, it will be all over. We complained for years."
“I come from a country that raises corn and cotton, cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I'm from Missouri, and you have got to show me.” W Vandiver (1854-1932)
Yeah, show me.
oh yea!
A challenge!
Ooo - yippee ya yea!
http://www.speea.org/
I have a better idea, good for you, good for all.
Let's do it! You call SPEEA or whatever union you want, see if they'll even listen to a bunch of anti-union pukes, and tell them to take over! I triple dog dare ya! First you ain't got the balls, second they'd laugh in your face, third you ain't got or gonna get the support, and finally you are full of sheep dip!
You DO NOT want ANY Union,and you know it. We don't want you and you don't want us. So stop all of your horsecrap, and for the first time in your miserable existance "pretend" you're a man and JUST DO IT!!!!!!
You miss the point, sphincter brain. We're not all anti union, just anti 933. If this union pulls it's head out of its butt, maybe things can slide. And watch what you ask for. It might come true. I could be your steward! Wouldnt that be fun! It wont be hard to get Speea to check out RMS Technical Workers and that we dissed your union doesn't mean sqwat. The contracts prove our point. Just because you dont like me dont make me wrong. Just because you ripped us off makes you wrong. Fix it and we'll go back to sleep. For now we'll entertain all with pokes and prods at Ramon the HAHA clown, who cant control himself on here and looses it all the time. After November we'll either retire this site or start making phone calls.
"You miss the point, sphincter brain. We're not all anti union, just anti 933."Sep 21, 2009 11:48:00 PM
NO Pussbucket! YOU don't get it! We really don't want you guys here. It would be nice if there were a momentary lapse in the atmosphere and you guys were sucked out into space. I will try to explain this and use simple terms so you'll understand.
You keep blaming the negotiating committee....
the 2003 negotiating committee only retained 3 members sooooo the 2006 committee was virtually new people,the 2009 committee has only 3 of the same members and only 2 of them were there from 2003,sooooo again new people.
You want to bring in a "NEW" union, "SOMEONE" else!!!!!
Earth to horse manure, Earth to horse manure, How many wives will you divorce and remarry? Before you "get it" that maybe, just maybe you had something to do with it!!
I know it is utterly inconceivable,(oops big word) correction,hard to believe that the Company might have a large part in either manipulating the workforce (especially you gullable ones) or just not willing to give us a good contract.
Soooooo we "get it", fact is we don't want You! You who want to blame everything on everyone else and couldn't see the truth if drove over them in a dump truck then backed up and did it another 10 times!
My guess is that's how many times you'll try to replace all these evil union people. That fact you say you are not all anti union is a lie, you know it , I know it, everyone knows it. Why can't you guys have the balls for once and just say it!
I have no problems telling you or anyone else that, being a union member, I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire! I despise you guys that much.
On the other hand I wouldn't jeopardize (another big word) endanger your's or anyone elses's health,safety,or well being, because unlike the fear tactics you spew. I am not violent or malicious. I just don't like you! Now how American is that you Putz!
Please make the calls.....hopefully you'll be offered a job as a tele-marketer
"That fact you say you are not all anti union is a lie, you know it , I know it, everyone knows it. Why can't you guys have the balls for once and just say it!"
We're not all anti-union (fingers crossed)
There, now are you happy?
"I have no problems telling you or anyone else that, being a union member, I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire! I despise you guys that much."
The feeling is mutual R. it really is!
So, how does this revelation make any difference in the chit-stained contract you'll whine and cry about getting here in a few weeks?
C'mon; try that strike thing one more time - double-dog dare ya!!
"So, how does this revelation make any difference in the chit-stained contract you'll whine and cry about getting here in a few weeks?"
Amazing you say the union has until November to fix this and yet your comment clearly and Unequivocally states you are expecting we will get a lousy contract. What happened to all that faith that the company will not treat the workers badly?
What a bunch of losers and posers you are! You want this negotiations to fail as much as you wanted your petition to succeed.
Since you have sooooooooooo much faith in the company.I am going to start my own little movement and get all the members I can to rally the negotiators to accept the very first offer the company throws down. I'll bet it will not have a raise , RONA, or 9/80, but since you won't be voting on it and we will.... Guess what your sorry asses are gonna get?!
We won't have to strike, the company will know that because of your hard work they can offer us maggot infested dog slobber and we'll gladly accept it. After knowing that, they will never want the local 933 to leave it would be to their disadvantage,and thus you will have sealed the fate of everyone. BITCHIN!!!!! I like it!
"So, how does this revelation make any difference in the chit-stained contract you'll whine and cry about getting here in a few weeks?"
P.S. Since I know Bob Guth reads these blogs, Bob Please don't offer us jack chit we want absolutely positively NOTHING in fact to help Raytheons shareholders and Bill Swanson RONA we want you to cut the hourly's pay by 20%. For the good of the company Bob Please!
There, now are you happy?
I expect you to get the best contract you can. But more than that, I expect you to make adjustments to the bargain to rectify years of wage imbalance. If you don't, we will be like puss under your toenails. We will fester until your feet fall off. Workers began warning you over a dozen years ago.
The only persons negotiating this fall are your negotiators and the Co. Don't blame an "insignificant group of Cal Techs" if you fail. We are nobodies, remember? Suck it up and take responsibility for a change.
"The only persons negotiating this fall are your negotiators and the Co. Don't blame an "insignificant group of Cal Techs" if you fail. We are nobodies, remember? Suck it up and take responsibility for a change."
Oh I won't blame you. NO NO NO! I'll just remind you, actually hound you to death, of your asinine comments and how you hate the people who are trying to fight for you and how you want to replace unions with other unions and other unions with other unions because all are incompetent and how everyone is a member but none will join and how gracious and kind and loving and giving Raytheon is and how it has to be 933's fault and how no one else on the planet could be responsible other than 933 and how violent and how mean and how ugly and how childish and how evil 933 is and how it's 933's fault for global warming and how it's 933's fault for the Columbine killings, and how it's 933's fault that for all the genecide in Africa and how it's 933's fault for all the abortions in america, and how it's 933's fault for atheism in the classrooms and how it's 933's fault for the holocaust since we are evil Nazi bastards and on and on and on!!!!!!!
Please Bob Guth I beg of you take away 30% of the hourly pay and benefits for the good of all our shareholders. ALL HAIL THE COMPANY
RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!RAYTHEON! RAYTHEON!
"Since you have sooooooooooo much faith in the company.I am going to start my own little movement and get all the members I can to rally the negotiators to accept the very first offer the company throws down. I'll bet it will not have a raise , RONA, or 9/80, but since you won't be voting on it and we will.... Guess what your sorry asses are gonna get?!"
Hmmm; same things we've gotten for the last few contracts - NOTHING? I win the prize, right?! It'll be the exact same thing YOU'LL be getting as well; just remember that!
"We won't have to strike, the company will know that because of your hard work they can offer us maggot infested dog slobber and we'll gladly accept it."
My hard work for the last three years; including the efforts made while you and the rest of the tribe were wandering the streets for three months three years ago. Asking for more; getting nothing but ridicule.
"After knowing that, they will never want the local 933 to leave it would be to their disadvantage,and thus you will have sealed the fate of everyone. BITCHIN!!!!! I like it!"
So, nothing has changed, then. You've admitted it in a public forum. This local continues to show that it's incompetent, why do we need it again?
Resign this union today, and dump 933 where it belongs!
"Soooooo we "get it", fact is we don't want You! You who want to blame everything on everyone else and couldn't see the truth if drove over them in a dump truck then backed up and did it another 10 times! "
Sniffle sniffle...so sad. You down't wike us any moah...sniff, sniff.
Lookie here Mr Fecal Face, you can hate all you want. That's a one way street. None of us hate you. We just don't want haters in control of the money. Why is it the Winners of the decertification are all angry? Didn't you win? So why all the puss and inflamation from you? Take a MIDOL and wash yourself out.
Question: "Why is it the Winners of the decertification are all angry? Didn't you win? So why all the puss and inflamation from you? Take a MIDOL and wash yourself out.
Sep 23, 2009 6:03:00 AM"
Answer: Because of this statement made by YOU:
" This union has six weeks to straighten out or another union is getting the invite. By 2012, it will be all over. We complained for years."
Nothing has changed and nothing will because, as always with you jackals, you don't want it! You just want DRAMA that's all! The negoiations have not even started they begin Oct,5th and you make comments about bringing in another union ,making calls, fix it or else. The team knows what you've asked for they are putting a proposal tegether to give to the company and all you can do is,rant,criticize,and complain. Why? because you want it to fail so you have the drama. That was the purpose of the previous remarks. That's why we don't like you. If anyone has held back the workforce it's been you by trying to divide and conquer. If this were an army you guys would have been shot as deserters and traitors or else we would all Chinese citizens!
There, now are you happy?
'
"The team knows what you've asked for they are putting a proposal tegether to give to the company and all you can do is,rant,criticize,and complain. Why? because you want it to fail so you have the drama."
It'll fail no matter what WE do; remember, we're outsiders.
We have no control, we have no say in the matter, we're gonna get what the union gets, as scabby non-paying members, right? Of course, you'll remember all of that vitriol from the last three years? This is where the union gets to prove the Ousties wrong!
"If anyone has held back the workforce it's been you by trying to divide and conquer. If this were an army you guys would have been shot as deserters and traitors...."
Nope; patriots might be a better description; let's see who'll win the war!
Oust933!
To Anon at Sep 22, 2009 11:44:00 PM
"we will be like puss under your toenails."
Are you sure "puss" is the word you wanted to use? Sounds like a Freudian slip.
"Nothing has changed and nothing will because, as always with you jackals, you don't want it! You just want DRAMA that's all! The negoiations have not even started they begin Oct,5th and you make comments about bringing in another union ,making calls, fix it or else. "
For once you've heard us. Now, If you read closely, you will see in the tiny tiny text somewhere that says something to the effect of "if you fix it, we'll lay off." It took this revolution to wake up our union. Years of complaints fell on deaf ears. Forced to rebel, we will judge the results of this contract, and decide if we go to sleep or not.
All the banter is a result of nasty posts by lobo. If we are so insignificant, nobody cares what we write. We've proven we're not, right Mr Watson?
Numbers dont lie. The company pays by the labor block. It cost averages payments to the labor force as a single deal. Kinda like shopping at Sams Club. Thats why they are willing to adjust wages to fix the problem. The Company is eager for you to suggest first. Make it right by the people, and fix the money problem that has you stewards and workers in turmoil! Look at pay! Look at the injustice! Every class but one has been short changed. By my calculations, Custodians are ripped off $5543.20 this year based upon a 40 hour week. On top of that, you want $33 a month from them for that screwing?
When SP broke loose with that congratulatory letter to IAM933, he meant it. But he got bombarded with vile remarks. It's been that way since. We already placed a permanent marker on IAM933 at the NLRB. We are willing to have a decent conversation here. We will play nice, just like you. We dont have enough hate in us to give a rats tail. An informal phone call with a Speea guy said we have a case because wages increases should not be separated by 69%.
We know Negotiations did not start yet. We also know only one question in the August 31st Questionair deals with our concerns. Dont tell us we play both fields while you do it.
"The team knows what you've asked for they are putting a proposal tegether to give to the company and all you can do is,rant,criticize,and complain."
Maybe you should have given us some feedback that you were working on our concerns. Instead, you gave us the HAHA dude. Garbage in - Garbage out.
"Maybe you should have given us some feedback that you were working on our concerns. Instead, you gave us the HAHA dude. Garbage in - Garbage out.
Sep 23, 2009 7:45:00 PM"
Feedback was given look below at the date and time
"Anonymous said...
Anyone gotten a questionnaire about things the Union should fight for this round? Should those questions get asked here?
Sep 12, 2009 12:15:00 PM"
Some issues (9/80,Rona,GWI)have been hand delivered already. If you have more specific please include details.It will be looked at.
Sep 12, 2009 5:21:00 PM"
Either you really do not care or you just want to complain or maybe have a hidden agenda(like getting rid of 933 because of personal issues) no matter, if you were serious you would have given it a rest and waited for the outcome rather than threaten to be calling anyone. I agree with you whole heartedly the haha dude does have issues,but he does not represent 933 or it's leadership. He's just the worlds biggest ass. I actually hope he's not a member, it is unfortunate for everyone that he even works for Raytheon.
I hope all of my assumptions are wrong and we move foward together with a better contract.
I am most impressed. Thanks for a decent responce. Hey Oustees! We have a real local union member here now! Well...not including the HAHA dude, better known as the treasurer.
As long as we have real dialogue instead of hate language, then we can get real. Welcome!
"An informal phone call with a Speea guy said we have a case because wages increases should not be separated by 69%."
Having a case, and willing to do something about it are two different things, aren't they?
Even though we were right about the disparity (and there's a few in the union that won't dispute that; I've talked to them personally), they'll do little to satisfy the masses. That would be seen as caving in to our demands.
'Whatcha gonna do when the come for you?'
"That would be seen as caving in to our demands."
Isn't that doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons?
"Some issues (9/80,Rona,GWI)have been hand delivered already. If you have more specific please include details.It will be looked at.
Sep 12, 2009 5:21:00 PM"
Either you really do not care or you just want to complain or maybe have a hidden agenda....."
It is good that some issues are being looked at. But GWI is not one of them. Targeted raises toward all classes except Assemblers is required before any GWI should happen. So when the company says they are going to add "X" percent to the wages, first negotiators need to correct pay. After that is balanced, then lets talk GWI.
Thank you for taking the time to consider this. Please fix the injustice to all the regular workers. The model at the top of this comment section proves this isn't just selfish. SP, thanks for writing what everyone knew for so long, but were afraid to say publicly. Union guy, who ever you are, thanks for coming here finally with a sense of decency. I am tired of the HAHA guy like a few others too. Jeff just said join the union, and see what happens. Whatever.
" first negotiators need to correct pay. After that is balanced, then lets talk GWI.
Thank you for taking the time to consider this. Please fix the injustice to all the regular workers."
Pay will NOT be balanced; the majority who have the disparate wages (assy) will NEVER vote to red-circle their own pay; that's what it would take!
$1500 SWP, then 2% in years two and three. You read it here first.
"$1500 SWP, then 2% in years two and three. You read it here first."
On one hand, they go on strike because the assemblers wont share. On the other, they face a split of the union. Tool and Die makers give up $18000 for what again? Oh yea, a brotherhood. The union has to do something.
"On one hand, they go on strike because the assemblers wont share. On the other, they face a split of the union. Tool and Die makers give up $18000 for what again? Oh yea, a brotherhood."
There are people that'll claim that brotherhood thing over anything else out there.
But what's this, yet another member of an occupation that's been bent over by this union? Welcome to the disillusioned minority, according to our illustrious union leaders.
"The union has to do something."
Make it irrelevant by getting out of it is a start (seriously!)
Notice they've all stopped coming around here.
They've been told to tone it down for fear of being ridiculed and made to look like fools.
Obviously, they didn't learn that the Internet is forever, isn't it?
It sure is nice that I can lay off for a while. Look at you guys! You're starting to get it!
It may have been worth it to have been called slimeball and slim, among the nicer terms so that after this humiliating defeat, the average worker begins to see just what has really happened at his local lodge.
I hold out hope that the union does the right thing by addressing the major complaints that this group has brought forth to all workers.
There is a real sense that this contract will not be easy, but a negotiating team interested in righting the wrongs of the past will manage to protect the core while undoing the long term damage to the livelyhood of some of the most talented workers on the plant.
When I look at the wages at the top of the comments page here, I see wages that are above what the prevailing rates justify for a few of the fields I am familiar with. There is wiggle room here. The union doesn't have to cut it's own throat to satisfy us. They can manage to do readjust wages and increment a GWI quite well.
Just an idea of how poorly this union is treating one class of workers...
Y! Career Article
For being the "best and brightest", we sure seem to be at a disadvantage. Why is it we have engineering doing technicians jobs?
Dump933 2day!
The assemblers are getting overpaid while the rest are getting underpsid, and Jimbo wonders why we want to decertify them? If the assemblers want great pay, more power to them! But don't screw everyone else while you do it.
Just an idea of how poorly this union is treating one class of workers...
Y! Career Article
For being the "best and brightest", we sure seem to be at a disadvantage. Why is it we have engineering doing technicians jobs?
Dump933 2day!
Sep 28, 2009 5:30:00 AM"
I couldn't agree more,we need to get rid of this union! New contract or not they don't care about anyone except the assemblers who keep feeding them their bread crumbs. I say lets start making phone calls, that way when they faill once again at the tables we're ready to move in.
Dump933 now!
Another Lost Cause=Wallmart Manager=HaHa The Union Clown=Lobo=Union Treasurer=Ramon=Loser Moron. Any other monikers?
Gabi Stalker
"I couldn't agree more,we need to get rid of this union! New contract or not they don't care about anyone except the assemblers who keep feeding them their bread crumbs. I say lets start making phone calls, that way when they faill once again at the tables we're ready to move in."
Sad as it is, this union will accept just about anything that comes up this time around. There's no support in the economic times now (compared to 3 years ago) for a strike.
Had an opportunity to chat with a UFCW member over their ongoing negotiations. They've learned from the IAM error and won't be striking. Only the die-hard unionistas are the ones taking like that; apparently they're a vocal minority of the membership.
There's a "get out of the union free" window fast approaching. NOW would be the time to seriously consider what's been written here over the last three years.
Three days, zero responses?
I'm still waiting for Jeff to explain why assemblers deserve a 69% higher increase over their brothers. When is SP going to write a new artiicle? It looks like the HAHA guy took his meds.
We are all waiting for his explanation. Most likely it will be off topic.
Someone said: "I'm still waiting for Jeff to explain why assemblers deserve a 69% higher increase over their brothers."
As I have said in the past and will say once again; I believe in fair and equitable wage increases for all members of the bargaining unit. And since I do not work at your place of employment, I have no idea how or why things were done in the past the way they were. I hear that certain groups got increases for taking classes or getting certifications, but no one has confirmed this yet.
I still do not see how you all lay the blame solely on the Union. There are two side to every negotiation. I am almost certain that the company is the one behind the non-equitable wage increases because they know who the voting members are. By not being in the Union you are screwing yourselves, it's not the Union doing it.
Ever hear the term strength in numbers????? Think about it! Stop thinking of dues as a wage loss, and think of it as an investment in your future earnings. There will be dues in just about any other Union too. Would you just complain about those dues as well?????
Get involved, join the Union and see what a difference there will be when the company sees the union membership increasing. It's not what they want to see, as strong unified workforce is NOT what the company wants to see. It will NOT help the company during negotiations. But it will help the Bargaining Unit and it's members and in the long run it will help you all.
Stop being one sided here. Think about both sides of the argument.
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!
Oh, I too am waiting for a new post from Slim.
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!! said..."Stop being one sided here. Think about both sides of the argument."
When is the union going to think about our side? They only care about those who pay them the most.The assemblers.
Direct from the Union!
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From: jobscommittee@hotmail.com
Subject: Rally at the Roadside Monday... Pass it on!!!!
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 03:24:02 -0700
Brothers and Sisters,
On Monday October 5, 2009 our Negotiating Committee opens contract negotiations with Raytheon! So let’s “Rally at the Roadside”
Day: Monday October 5, 2009
Where: West Gate (Herman’s Rd & Nogales Hwy)
Time: 3:00 to 5:00 pm
Who: All Union Members! Bring another member, bring your family, bring a friend, TALK IT UP!
We need everyone to attend to show Raytheon that we want and deserve a good contract. Please bring your family and friends to show your support and share this with all of our brothers and sisters! Please do not post this message nor share it on Raytheon e-mail, and please no alcohol…See you there!!!!!
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The union is looking for support this Monday.
"Please do not post this message nor share it on Raytheon e-mail, and please no alcohol…See you there!!!!!"
Okay, so now Security knows about it, and so will everyone else - including PCSO, TPD and DPS.
"Okay, so now Security knows about it, and so will everyone else - including PCSO, TPD and DPS.
Oct 2, 2009 5:43:00 AM"
I'm confused why would they now know?
The chart that shows the 93 pay scale was skewed back then. Testers were making $13.25 and chemical and material handlers were making $13.50. Did the handlers have to have a AA degree or equivalent, I don't think so! Testers have repeatedly been screwed. We started to get out of the rut when our block was moved from the bottom level of the cep pyramid blocks, to the second level where we should have been when cep was first started. Many testers already qualified for ett:engineering test tech, so many got raises. then there were complaints of why the testers could have that much pay(which was now similar to the other technical skilled blocks)so the very next contract there was a little "equality" adjustment which
was a slap in the face to testers
and other techs. anyway getting back to the charts, superbia parti made a chart with the calculations with 215% factored toward the 93 pay scales $28.49 for testers, $29.02 for handlers, assemblers still getting an above industry standard wage. all those wages are hypothetical of course except one, 40093 assembly technician at $21.54.
well so much for imparticial fairness. i believe it will always be this way, and a bit surprised that the salaried part of cep has gone along with all this, but it could be something to do with bargaining chips and what not.
we should be seeing a bunch of staunch union loyalists and some non-union jumping to the salaried ranks soon, going where the money is, not staying to continue this unions' ideals.
i read a post with something about strength in numbers, so let's say every hourly employee joined the union to gain this so called strength. the contract is offered and there is again a huge discrepancy between the wages,
will that be because:
certain classifications have more members so they will get more satisfaction.
the company said they want the pay to go to certain classifications more then the others.
what would be the best way to get the right wages for the people, since they would all be members?
"Testers have repeatedly been screwed. We started to get out of the rut when our block was moved from the bottom level of the cep pyramid blocks, to the second level where we should have been when cep was first started."
Now, the story goes that one of the 933 members at the time (long since retired) wanted to keep that PTS position on the bottom row!
The International had to step in and fix that slight injustice!
"and a bit surprised that the salaried part of cep has gone along with all this, but it could be something to do with bargaining chips and what not."
The CEP program has been disassembled by both parties, since both parties screwed it up. It's a name, and little more, much like Pontiac and Saturn; relics of a failed system.
"what would be the best way to get the right wages for the people, since they would all be members?"
The process is called "red circle"; welcome to the point many of the technicians have been stalled (in come cases) for years.
Solution? Some get a little bit (assy); some get a lot (PTS, Cal Svcs, electricians, plumbers...)
Seems easy to me.
Ron Witz? The grandpa of cep
Too bad he didn't live to see the spawn of his loins die a young death.
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