Yesterday I got a nice letter from our union DBR, Mr. Watson. "As you know, we will be entering negotiations very soon with Raytheon, and I wanted to contact you and ask you to be a part of the IAM team, to gain a voice and a vote on your future."
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Whew! What a line! Let me see if I got that right. You want me to pay three hours a month of my labor to get a voice? A Vote? Regarding MY future? I invite all of you to read the letter for content. Does it make sense? He wants to protect our jobs, pay & benefits. It goes on and on…yea...OK, that's why the skilled trades at RMS have pay below par. It sounds like he is protecting his job, pay and benefits. IAM is an extremely profitable company. Did any of you know about the IAM Golf Course they own and operate at the Wipisinger Center that is paid for by your union dues? There is more. Since most Americans have tired of union games, it leaves fewer and fewer of you to carry the increasing burden of their luxurious jet-setter lifestyle.
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Jimbo, we understand the game. You make more than double the average pay of the RMS Worker. And as you go up the IAM rank and file, you'll get even more than that! To fund this increase, the union is raising the dues again this year. What was two hours of pay per month in December of 2008 will be three hours a month this January. BOHICA! *
Jimbo, drop the Medical Coverage rants. We've heard that all before. That's why you guys caused the strike last time. You should have asked for a pay raise and let it get eaten up by medical costs back in 2003. If you had done that, the 3+3+3 you got in 2006 would have been 6% ahead of what you gave your workers. You're going to get pass-through language now, just like salary. You just postponed the inevitable, and it cost you 6% in wages forever. Take the medical coverage that salary gets, and shut the hell up! That leaves you in a better position to get wages for the workers. Up until now, you failed us miserably.
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Your ability to bargain is hampered by workers who aren't part of the union. They aren't part of the union, because the disadvantages outweigh the advantages of membership. You caused us to rise up against you. Not only must you face the Company across the negotiating table, but also now you will battle for your right to those negotiations. Some of you claim that if we thought we were so smart, why don't we join forces with you? Some of us have in the past. And we collectively discovered that you are not what you claim you are. It's not that we are so smart. It's that your union is so DUMB!
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Nobody will forget the feeding frenzy the union had on the night of 5 November of 2006. We want no part of that. Your performance falls way short of "protecting our jobs, pay, & benefits."
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"If we stand together we can do better." BOHICA! *
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The union has systematically ripped us all off. If you had not, you would have more loyalty from us. But since before I joined the Company, you guys have fought to reduce the wages of skilled labor in exchange for increasing unskilled labor.
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You violate union ethics to forget the trades that gave you your beginnings. Since the early 90's, wages for all skilled trades have suffered, while a select group got a huge boost. You lie when you blame the company. YOUR union did it. You negotiated it away, just like you did RONA and everything else. The cold wolf makes cute videos of a couple of our supporters, but it still doesn’t change the facts. Your members know this to be true.
Soon the Company is going to drop a nuke on the union when it begins to fill Tester slots with salaried workers this fall. Go ahead and strike. Since your selfish union has seen to keep the Tester Profession pay low, there is a cost to you. The Company can't hire enough to do the work, so they are going to roll you over the log and "give it to ya". You better get generous with the Company and let RMS pay the technical trades what they are worth. I'm really going to enjoy the show when the union goes bezerk over this!
Quote: "And as someone said earlier I have not seen anyone trying to stand up for wips, custodians, material handlers. All these occupations are subject to outsourcing if you lose the union."
BOLSHEVIC! There are quite a few WIPS & Material Handlers who signed the petition. They too have been given the shaft by this union. We know this, and are fighting for them too. Once upon a time, an Assembler could find a better paying job by training up to be a WIP. Thanks to this union, that hasn't been the case for many years. How many red circles did the union cause, and then it lies to cover up deals so they wouldn't complain? The union loves to say, "We'll try to help you, but the Company is greedy". So convenient to say, and so easy to fool the unsuspecting client of the machine that consumes your wealth. Outsourcing won't happen as they claim. There are not enough WIPS & Material Handlers to push the union honchos around. Just like the other skilled jobs, the union has seen fit to screw us. Our movement brings balance to the pay grades here at RMS either by forcing the union to recognize they have to represent, or by removing their right to represent. ALL THE GRADES, not just a couple, deserve fighting representation.
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This means that they will painfully have to undo what they have done, or it will be painful when we undo them. You will put all the wages proportionally back where they were back then, across the entire Plant. Sad to say, you guys are too stupid to understand "proportionally" because you can't figure out "median", so I doubt you guys can fix this problem you created over successive contracts. Separate the skills again! Testers are not EETs! Inspectors are not Assemblers! Bring pride back to your work force again! I'll volunteer to teach you guys what I mean, if you have the fortitude to attempt such an endeavor. Then maybe I for one would lay off your case...a little.
I don't accept the phrase "we will try to do better" from the union. That is a cheap way out. When RMS spends close to 72 Million Dollars a year on labor wages, not including benefits, then you have quite a big pie with which to slice up different ways. It's the union's job to represent skilled labor, the same kind of workers that originally started trade unions so long ago. You guys have forgotten your charter. We're here to help you remember. Because if you won't do your job, other unions are lining up to do it for you. BOHICA! ( Bend over, here it comes again)
If you want to change the union, fight it!
117 comments:
"You want me to pay three hours a month of my labor to get a voice? A Vote? Regarding MY future?"
Isn't that what you do at church? Doesn't your tithe go towards the preachers pay? You could save that money and just read the bible or watch Swaggert on tv. Heck Pastor Furrow is on Sunday mornings at 8 am.
Is there a video that goes along with this manifesto? What rambling crap you write. I like the part where things "might" be ok if testers make more money. Thats a telling statement.
Problem is with your twisted logic is; You pay the tithes but STILL don't get representation. If I join, our pay would STILL go down!
And that second comment, you must be drunk. Go back and read again in the morning after the hang-over wears off. Better yet, maybe you should go play golf at the union golf course!
poor willie
"Anonymous said...
Problem is with your twisted logic is; You pay the tithes but STILL don't get representation. If I join, our pay would STILL go down!"
The sadest part of all is it will go down even more if you don't join you PUTZ!....
Oh wait, I forgot. You will be going salaried when this over, my bad.
poor former walmart manager
" Anonymous said...
Problem is with your twisted logic is; You pay the tithes but STILL don't get representation. If I join, our pay would STILL go down!"
Can you say WAAAAAAAAHH?! Can't say I've ever known a company just willing to shell out what You the employee wants.
Let's see you go to a company and say I am your guy and this is what you'll have to pay me to work here. So let me know how that works out for you.
It looks to me like The Penguin wants to test the Dynamic Duo as they fight to save Raytheon from the evil forces of socialism.
POW! BAM! BOOM! Take that Penguin-Cold Wolf! The Penguin has no friends, so he resorts to poo poo torpedos. The forces of evil will never win in the long run Penguin!
So, for those of you keeping score, the pro-union participants have resorted to posting lame, uninteresting and completely irrelevant YouTube links.
The anti-union participants are really waiting for a rebuke to what was posted.
Isn't that what you do at church? Doesn't your tithe go towards the preachers pay?
Actually, I'm agnostic when it comes to religion; thanks for asking.
Now, if you're actually trying to compare religion and unionism; both are faith-based. We are only arguing the merits of one of those; don't toss a red herring out there like that.
Obviously, I don't believe in either of those dogmas at all.
(uh-oh, that darn college-level vocabulary again; these people are too smart for me...)
"(uh-oh, that darn college-level vocabulary again; these people are too smart for me...)"
If your so durn smart then why are you just a lowly factory worker? Does Taylor realize your slipping through the cracks?
Stereotype
Since Lobo Blando loves the baby videos so much here is a video he is sure to appreciate. It’s all us babies celebrating the demise of lodge 933 and its worthless representation. When all petition signatures are counted I’m sure the number is over the “Median Value”. Baby This!
BOHICA!
I see cute cartoons, and someone with a documentary meant to claim racism. Mr Furrow just got done signing the petition this morning, and the claim to dogma is spot on in this debate.
Is the union side providing protection against racism from other laborers, or are they clammed up because they can't debate the issues?
The way I see it, these oust guys are winning three to one. Go get 'em BatBaby!
"Mr Furrow just got done signing the petition this morning"
LMAO "Mr" Furrow? Thats pretty disrespectful for a man in his position. And it's even more of a laugh to think he would sign it. What a LOSER you are.
"Mr Furrow just got done signing the petition this morning"
First of all Mr. Furrow's signature would be invalid as I would bet several of the signatures you have are. Secondly your attempt to get a petition through will be a long one as those signatures will have to be validated first.
However you to debate,o.k answer the following question, should be an easy yes or no answer, we'll comment on the context later.You seem to be good at redirecting the converstion to avoid answering the question presented. I will also answer your questions, so let's try shall we.
1.Is the company helping you or advising you?
2.Were you present during any of the negotiations from when Raytheon took over in 1999 until now?
3.Can you give a garauntee that Raytheon is going to step up like you say they are?
4.Have you ever negotiated pay and benefits for anyone other than yourself? (I don't mean as a company manager to a new hire or as a new hire either).
5.You show links and stats, Have you actually researched those facts to see if they are indeed true?
Okay balls in your court answer these then we will expound on your answers. Also ask any questions you would like. I promise not to get personal or take cheap shots but nsince there are 3 sides to each story I will show the other 2.
Yes, it can be done your side, my side and opinions presented by other uninterested parties. Let the people decide.
4 D Record.
Answers to quiz:
1.) Nope
2.) Yep as an employee.
3.) Define question please see answer for number 1.
4.)Nope, Never worked for a union and probably will not in the future.
5.)Yep
Right back at you.
1 No
2 Yes
3 See below
4 Yes
5 Yes
3.Can you give a garauntee that Raytheon is going to step up like you say they are?
Can I personally? No; neither can you at this moment in time say the company WON'T step up, either.
I'm virtually certain there will be a different outcome if the union is removed. Will it be better? Depends upon each individual situation.
I'm virtually certain the majority of the membership will still be displeased with the outcome of any further IMA933 negotiated contracts.
That's what's hoped for at this state of the discussion.
"1.Is the company helping you or advising you?"
No, that is illegal. The company never offered, nor did I seek help to remove IAM933. Nor did anyone ever involved with the decertification effort. Rumors to the contrary are not true
"2.Were you present during any of the negotiations from when Raytheon took over in 1999 until now?"
No, I was not in those exclusive meetings. It must have been tough to adapt to a new Company. Raytheon is not a "Not for Profit" Company. Get over it. You are no longer a tax write-off to a medical company intent on not paying Federal Taxes on its profits.
"3.Can you give a garauntee that Raytheon is going to step up like you say they are?"
I can guarantee Raytheon will treat all it's employees with respect, more respect than when the union was here. Observations of the Non-Union Security Guards and the Non-Union Salaried workers in this Company prove they enjoy freedom from representation. As far as pay is concerned, I stand the risk of loosing my "great" pay if the comments from the peanut gallery about me are true. I know the Company will pay me what I'm worth without a union. If I'm not satisfied with that, then I 'll have to decide what I'll do about it. I don't need Bobby or Jimbo doing my business. I'm big enough to get more pay through hard work and representing myself. Would you take that same challenge?
"4.Have you ever negotiated pay and benefits for anyone other than yourself? (I don't mean as a company manager to a new hire or as a new hire either)."
No. I have educated myself on how unions work over the past few years and learned the "business" of unionism. I've been forced to re-evaluate what union men say here. Before the last contract I was inclined to trust the men doing the negotiations. Those days are over. You guys used crocodile tears to win my support, only to find that it was done to hedge your position politically, not to help the worker out as you claimed. You used the members as peons and trampled the ones who fell from your divine grace. Pttuy!
"5.You show links and stats, Have you actually researched those facts to see if they are indeed true?"
Of Course! Let's talk about the post I made on 1 August where 85% of American workers in Forced Union States don't want a union. None of you challenged its validity. I was not challenged; therefore you all accept it as true. On that same thread however, Jeff made it real clear that I shouldn't refer to him as Steve. He was real angry. I stand my ground.
I've asked enough un-answered questions over the past two & 1/2 years. Would you thoughtfully go over them and begin to represent your side to us? Get your other union bosses involved as well. You need all the help you can get. Time's running out. We already have hundreds of signed petitions. It's just a matter of time now. And tell your minions to not make dumb entries on the blog. It makes your side look real bad. This dispute is serious; we don't need the pages clogged with childish comments. Your ball.
"Okay balls in your court answer these then we will expound on your answers."
Union Reply! Patience Grasshopper. They must invent answers to the truth the oustees reveal.
"Okay balls in your court answer these then we will expound on your answers."
Union Reply! Patience Grasshopper. They must invent answers to the truth the oustees reveal.
To Lodge 933; Your questions were answered why not answer one easy question for our group.
Why won't you come clean about losing our RONA(profit sharing)in 1997? I know you fired the person responsible for it. Are trying to save face and bury your skeletons? Sorry this was two questions. You may answer the first question. I do not want to hear the sound of crickets either.
"They must invent answers to the truth the oustees reveal."
Well, they should have some by now.
Ok; they'll post during break & lunch today.
I'll wait until I get home to read their well thought out responses.
"Okay balls in your court answer these then we will expound on your answers."
Union Reply! Patience Grasshopper. They must invent answers to the truth the oustees reveal.
I'm sorry I did not get back to you sooner my 5yr old grand daughter accidently poisoned herself yesterday and this just wasn't that important at that point.
Thank you for responding. The first 4 questions really do show that if you weren't there you can't really know what went on at the table. I myself only get what I am told by our negotiators. I can tell you that 1 1/2 yrs ago i was invited to a "respect" lunch where I did ask Bob Guth what was said and did he say the things I was told. His answer was "read your contract" I pressed him harder and he said"that's really none of your business if you want to know what is said in those meetings you should join the negotiating committee. So, I am curtious to know where you get your info from since HR won't give it out. As to #5 You have linked a lot of info (most of which I have not gone thru) but I do notice you have a way of just pointing out only the negative and then you make that dramatic as well. Like the"golf course", you fail to mention the place is open to ALL union members and the fact that it is a school used primarily for educateing members and that it was previously owned by one of the biggest anti-union organizations in america. So having said that I shall take your challenge and do some more reading, after I get some sleep.
4 D Record
"Did any of you know about the IAM Golf Course they own and operate at the Wipisinger Center that is paid for by your union dues?"
Once again, your ignorance is showing through. Yes, there is a pitch and putt there. Calling it a golf course is greatly overstating it. But that is not what Slim and his anti cronies want people to see or believe. They want you to see "golf course" and think OMG! They want you to envision Augusta National, Pebble Beach, or St. Andrews. They don't want you to see it for what it is, a transformed cow pasture, or a place for the people there to get in some exercise and blow off some steam since they are away from home.
Any other things you want to blow out of proportion, Slim?
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slim said:
"ALL THE GRADES, not just a couple, deserve fighting representation."
and then:
"It's the union's job to represent skilled labor, the same kind of workers that originally started trade unions so long ago."
Here he goes speaking out of both sides of his mouth again. Oh, were his lips moving? If so, he was lying.
Make up your mind, Slim. Which is it? The first or second quote?????
Once again, I have a feeling that all Slim wants is his pay to go up and to hell with the rest of you.
Be honest, Slime. Oops, I meant Slim.
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!
AGAIN!!
To Lodge 933; Your questions were answered why not answer one easy question for our group.
Why won't you come clean about losing our RONA(profit sharing)in 1997? I know you fired the person responsible for it. Are trying to save face and bury your skeletons? Sorry this was two questions. You may answer the first question. I do not want to hear the sound of crickets either.
I Will clarify this question if I need to with Names and certain things that were indicated. I won't let up on this one. This was a very costly mistake by the union. You don't gamble with OUR profit sharing. The Hourly workforce needs to know why you(lodge 933) lost our money over several thousand of dollars each person over all these years. If this money were saved and with simple compound interest... well you would know the result. All I can say is that the union lost us a total of 12 years ranging from $1000 to $3000 in yearly potential rona or profit sharing. The minimum without interest is approx $12000 to maximum $36000 or some value in between.
Are you going to respond?
"It's the union's job to represent skilled labor, the same kind of workers that originally started trade unions so long ago."
"Time's running out. We already have hundreds of signed petitions".
Hey Jeff,
What I don't understand is how in the world can they get soooo many signatures when the majority of the hourly is assemblers. They trash them at every turn saying they don't deserve the pay increase that "skilled" labor should get,and yet they have hundreds of signed petitions. Hmmm theres nine slots on each petition so if we gave them the benefit of doubt and said that if each petition had but 4 signatures times hundreds sounds to me like they got well over the 30%. SO WHATCHYA WAITING FOR?
"I've asked enough un-answered questions over the past two & 1/2 years."
So you've had 2 1/2 years to gather the required signatures and still you don't have them. Pretty sad. Since church is no longer an option maybe you can find some signatures at the casino.
Two more signatures are in the mail!!
"Two more signatures are in the mail!!"
Well in 15 years you might have something
"Two more signatures are in the mail!!"
If things are so bad as you put it why don't you buy those signatures? I'll give you mine for$20.00 and while your at go ahead amuse me with the RONA story. I came in after it was already gone so it makes no difference to me. But the $20.00 might put some gas in the old scootr!
What really irritates me about this site is that I have been with Hughes/Raytheon for some years now many more than Willies 9, my dad also worked for Hughes. We have been a union family for some years and we have both been union stewards. Yes I believe in unions. Now along comes this punk Willie and Gary and they want to try and decertify my union because something somewhere did not go their way. First you tell me I'm so stupid that I can only blindly follow the union while drinking kool aid. This is how you want to sway folks to your side? By telling me and many others that we can't think for ourselves but don't worry Willie is here to do it for us? Well Willie let me tell you that I have gone through life just fine with out the likes of you or your kind trying to tell me how I should do things and what I should believe. If you don't like the union fine don't join and leave us alone because unlike you I don't believe in Raytheons generosity. You have a community college degree and you yourself said if you don't like the options you can go somewhere else. I am union and I will always be union because I believe unions help.
GO UNION AND LONG LIVE IAM 933
To the anonymous poster Aug 9, 2009 2:36:00 PM, who asked questions and offered to respond; I will keep your granddaughter’s well being in my prayers. We may debate the issues of Labor here on the web, but your grandchild deserves a fast recovery and the best of wishes. I'll deal with my disagreements with your reply later. Take care of your loved ones. God Speed.
On to Steve, Jeff, Jimbo, and the minions quotes.
"ALL THE GRADES, not just a couple, deserve fighting representation."
And then:
"It's the union's job to represent skilled labor, the same kind of workers that originally started trade unions so long ago."
"Here he goes speaking out of both sides of his mouth again. Oh, were his lips moving? If so, he was lying."
Look Steve, erm, Jeff, whatever...you are just playing the fiddle here. Why don't you represent the trades? You are IAM, no? International Association of Ma-Ma-Ma-Machinists? You are just looking out for your fat UNION paycheck. Every word that comes from your mouth is deception! YOU choose to misinterpret my words at your convenience. Just because you said so doesn't make it true. The fact is your union misrepresented the trades. You abuse the loyalty and dedication of good workers and you steal from the poor to give to yourself.
Do yourself a favor and download a petition and resignation form at IAM933.NET!
Union members are legally permitted to sign the petition too. You may turn in your resignation form on the 20th of October. With representation like these guys, you cannot do worse! I’m sure the union is pressuring you not to.
For the rest in the peanut gallery, petitions have a "best used by" date. Only fresh signatures are valid, in this case, those signed this year. Since we didn’t even release the petitions official copy until a few months ago, you make a mute point. Nice try. With all the laws surrounding Decertification, we have taken on a difficult undertaking. But it is a worthy cause, ask Plant Security.
For the two-generation steward, it's nice that you do as you believe. Don't dog us over our right to bring this to the people. Hundreds of workers have expressed displeasure with this union and feel we'll be better off without it. You have a right to your opinion in America, like we do. Your union forced itself upon the workers 57 years ago. If the workers choose, they may remove it. If they keep the union, then you've lost nothing, right? Don’t make scapegoats of a handful of people over the mistakes of your union. We've discovered some people who would otherwise sign have chickened out over fear of you guys. How's it feel to be the Darth Vader in the picture?
For the two-generation steward, it's nice that you do as you believe. Don't dog us over our right to bring this to the people. Hundreds of workers have expressed displeasure with this union and feel we'll be better off without it. You have a right to your opinion in America, like we do. "Your union forced itself upon the workers 57 years ago. If the workers choose, they may remove it. If they keep the union, then you've lost nothing, right? Don’t make scapegoats of a handful of people over the mistakes of your union. We've discovered some people who would otherwise sign have chickened out over fear of you guys. How's it feel to be the Darth Vader in the picture?"
Like I said you should take your degree and apply it somewhere else because you are obviously not happy at Raytheon. And please don't make me the scapegoat for those who decided they were better off with a union than without. And what is it with you and all the lame movie comparisons? Is that from your semester in drama class?
"Your union forced itself upon the workers 57 years ago."
So it is apparent you are don't do any reasearch after all do you? If you did you would have known that it was Howard Hughes himself that brought the IAM in here .It was not forced . The only thing that is forced is the fact we have to listen to the lies of you Morons!
BTW! for the sake of arguement and you are right B.O.H.I.C.A! Baby! Cause it will be the company who benefits whenit breaks off inside you NOT the local.
"Like I said you should take your degree and apply it somewhere else because you are obviously not happy at Raytheon."
You spent 71 days on strike, because you loved Raytheon so much? Now you say we hate it? Talk about twisted logic! With minds like this at work in IAM933, the workers prayers will never be answered.
That's why the members should resign now. Letters of resignation from the union can be mailed in on Oct 20th. Don't spend another 63-79 dollars a month for empty representation.
"You spent 71 days on strike, because you loved Raytheon so much? Now you say we hate it? Talk about twisted logic! With minds like this at work in IAM933, the workers prayers will never be answered."
Hate and not happy are two different things you idiot but keep trying to twist things I'm sure it works with a few people.
So it is apparent you are don't do any reasearch after all do you? If you did you would have known that it was Howard Hughes himself that brought the IAM in here .It was not forced.
Wait - I call b.s.! Hughes was required to bring in a union in order to produce military weapons at that time; he was a staunch anti-union employer until he was forced to do so in the late 30's in California.
Feel free to buy the book and read that one yourselves!
The only thing that is forced is the fact we have to listen to the lies of you Morons!
Nobody is forcing your participation here, unlike your union which is forced upon us as laborers.
Get out933!
"Nobody is forcing your participation here, unlike your union which is forced upon us as laborers."
Nobody is forcing your participation at Raytheon feel free to find somewhere else to go.
"So it is apparent you are don't do any reasearch after all do you? If you did you would have known that it was Howard Hughes himself that brought the IAM in here .It was not forced . The only thing that is forced is the fact we have to listen to the lies of you Morons!"
What a buffoon! So many of you unionists repeat that one. Go ahead and prove it! Let's use your logic, bubba. Were YOU there at the negotiating table with Howard when he "invited them in"? What a crock! Not one of you commies were there in 1952 when they twisted HH's arm behind his back and forced this curse upon his factory. Read this! Howard Hughes Lie! YOU need to do your homework bubba.
Qwahahahahaha! We're "forcing" you to watch this blog?! Qwahahahaha!
"Hate and not happy are two different things you idiot but keep trying to twist things I'm sure it works with a few people." Angry words of a bearded tattooed knuckle-dragger on Kool-Aid.
"Nobody is forcing your participation at Raytheon feel free to find somewhere else to go."
That comment works both ways, troll. You are the "unhappy" one. Go get a job where you'll be more happy. Your union lies are on the web for all to see, and research. One by one, your minions will question the funk you all sell, and quit. It's just a matter of time. Oh wait, they've already begun to sign the petition. Oh dear, DUES PAYING MEMBERS signing the Petition?!!!?
I can see the ousties have been meeting at the Rita Ranch market again.
"Nobody is forcing your participation here, unlike your union which is forced upon us as laborers."
"Nobody is forcing your participation at Raytheon feel free to find somewhere else to go."
Maybe I will.
Maybe I have.
Maybe I'm like Jeff, and have never worked there.
"It's just a matter of time. Oh wait, they've already begun to sign the petition. Oh dear, DUES PAYING MEMBERS signing the Petition?!!!?"
Were you dropped as a child or does brain damaged run in your family? You have been claiming to have hundreds of signed petitons for the past 2 yrs. When we were on strike you claimed in the azstarnet to have more than 600. Yet you've done NOTHING! You WEAK,PATHETIC,INSIGNIFICANT little PUKES. I can't wait for the Company to stick it to you. BOHICA!!!!!!
"When we were on strike you claimed in the azstarnet to have more than 600." Hmmm...I never read that. You mind showing me the quote & page? You sound angry, no, even pouting! It must suck to know Union Members have signed up.
"You WEAK,PATHETIC,INSIGNIFICANT little PUKES. I can't wait for the Company to stick it to you. BOHICA!!!!!!"
Looks like you have anger management trouble too. You fit the profile of a typical unionist militant perfectly. Without the union, the Company will most likey stick it to you. THAT'S WHY YOU SEEK PROTECTION, NO? You need the protection because of YOUR insecurity.
You can splash around in the water all you want, but you'll never move the lake.
I don't need your protection. I'll save my 63 dollars a month.
I find it laughable that the one thing you keep coming back to is the monthly dues. $63-79 a month is nothing! I bet Slim spends that every time he hits the local fast food joint.
Unless you have been involved in the day to day happenings between the Union and company you have ZERO idea what goes on. I find there are issues daily that the Union deals with and no one ever knows about them. Nothing huge, just things like the company trying to hire/promote people not properly qualified. Trying to work people different shift and not paying the proper OT rates. I am not even talking grievances here, just day to day things that get taken care of without anyone knowing.
You keep saying that the Union lost this and the Union lost that in negotiations. Well, I have a feeling that the company knows how many people would cross if there was a strike and so they can play hardball with the Union. Here is an example of what a united membership can do. This is from one of my past negotiations: The company wanted mandatory OT language for up to 4 hours with no advance notice required. They could come up to you 2 minutes before quitting time and say, "you are staying for 4 more hours." No regard to what's going on in your life outside of work. Our members did not want this, so the negotiators were able to get the word out, and our members started turning down weekend OT just to prove a point to the company. 3 hours later, that mandatory language was pulled off the table by the company. And that language has never been tried again.
All you anti's should get with the program and see what could happen with a united bargaining unit. But that makes too much sense for the likes of Slim. He needs that $63 dollars to continue to keep Burger King in business.
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!
Who is Carlos Slim Helú?
Mexico's answer to Bill Gates, except fatter, less charitable by 9/10 and with a monopoly on Mexico's telecommuncations that would've made Rockefeller seem like a rag-picker. He should focus on buying California instead of The New York Times to make the Reconquista legit.
stolen from TW Ask A Mexican!
Didn't realize you were actually complementing Superbia with that moniker, did ya?
Slim - When actress Nancy Kulp appeared as Miss Jane Hathaway on the sitcom THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES/CBS/1962-71 she was nicknamed "Slim" by fellow actor Raymond Bailey who played the Milburn Drysdale, the banker.
Not sure how this adds to the argument but one stupid post deserves another.
Slim Hathaway
"Well, I have a feeling that the company knows how many people would cross if there was a strike and so they can play hardball with the Union."
As you know, at least 50% of union members will cross if there is a strike. We know it; you know it, and union leadership is desperate to hide it. They are on a campaign financed by the victims of the union to gather more membership. They are re-recruiting members who quit and crossed last strike. Since they hate crossers, the only plausible purpose to re-recruit is for the money. They've even gone as far as to say "put the strike behind you now" in an effort to get strikers to accept the scabs within their ranks. But the scab list is still out there. They'll never trust scabs even while taking their money.
The "you are staying for 4 more hours" story is touching, but ridiculous. Bosses will encourage you to work OT when the company needs it yea, but you draw a ridiculous claim to emphasize a point without merit. It's another scare tactic unions are famous for. And the "organization within three hours" story is bizarre at best. Only an infant mind would believe that line of crap. I would cut DBR pay by 30% and the ABR pay by 20%. The DBR shouldn't get more money than a Rambo.
HR OPS 666!
Engineers are going to make $13.53 an hour starting in January. VSMs will make $15.59 for a 60-hour week. The ruthless CEO is going to suck every drop of blood from Raytheon Employees starting New Years! Salaried have no union, look what happened!
Now, don't you guys feel better that you aren't the only ones they want to screw?
"All you anti's should get with the program and see what could happen with a united bargaining unit."
If you change the IAM Constitution and make me the DBR, maybe. Why the selfish demand? Because your union doesn't accept change from below, it changes the ones below it. It brainwashes the membership. It twists their arm through peer pressure and smear campaigns. I would want to keep the good parts of the union and flush the bad parts.
I would make good changes for the workers. I would throw out the communist rules of your union, and replace them with 21st century ideas. I am anti socialist you see. So I would not rob from the poor to give to the unwilling. I would make merit a part of the equation. I would permit worker choice in how they get their 40 hours a week. I would let the company make decisions that help both itself and the worker. A thousand workers who never knew of it before would discover RONA. I would work on programs to help the company make degreed engineers out of laborers so that both groups prosper. Not just some silly CEP program that keeps the workers in the wage grades.
I have no delusions of grandeur. I'm not campaigning for office. I know I can't really do these things. The IAM Constitution stands in the way. It's a soviet designed document using democratic sounding rhetoric to sweeten up the concoction. But it's all a bunch of Anti-American Poison to me. For those of you who criticize me for wanting change around here, you need to go back to 8th grade civics class. This is America. I have a voice. You speak of democracy, but to embrace it you must make room for the voices of your opponents. Democracy is not a FOUR-letter word, right?
And what happened to the guy who was to come back and “Expound upon your answers” after he asked five questions. I’ll give the benefit of the doubt for another day, but after that it’ll be pretty obvious that was a ruse. Come to daddy. Is this a new case of the unionista backing down? Show slim he’s wrong.
"I would make good changes for the workers. I would throw out the communist rules of your union, and replace them with 21st century ideas. I am anti socialist you see. So I would not rob from the poor to give to the unwilling. I would make merit a part of the equation. I would permit worker choice in how they get their 40 hours a week. I would let the company make decisions that help both itself and the worker. A thousand workers who never knew of it before would discover RONA. I would work on programs to help the company make degreed engineers out of laborers so that both groups prosper. Not just some silly CEP program that keeps the workers in the wage grades."
Fine sentiments Willie but you don't make any decisions so how can you say "I" will do this "I" will do that? Fact is you are nothing more than an hourly like the rest of us and you are letting the company use you for their gain. You must enjoy it so BOHCHRA
Since they hate crossers, the only plausible purpose to re-recruit is for the money. They've even gone as far as to say "put the strike behind you now" in an effort to get strikers to accept the scabs within their ranks.
This is an ABSOLUTE sign of a desperate group; so was the letter, flyer, and application that started this thread.
Jimbo's pretty solid that he doesn't want to come back and do real work again once that labor contract is gone.
who is willie? r u sure its him? because jeff is steve? did agent smith ever go bankrupt? twice? do you call it nepotizm when you get you kid a top $ job, an screw your brothers out of it? why does some skill pay low than average and lots of school, but another pay high with not much school? where is ed q?
"who is willie? r u sure its him? because jeff is steve? did agent smith ever go bankrupt? twice? do you call it nepotizm when you get you kid a top $ job, an screw your brothers out of it? why does some skill pay low than average and lots of school, but another pay high with not much school? where is ed q?"
You must be one of the "not much school" because that is horribly written.
Slim, you really have no clue do you? Delusions of grandeur!!!!
The mandatory OT scenario I laid out in a previous post is a direct quote from the companies chief negotiator. They wanted to be able to tell a worker he/she had to work OT, up to 4 hours, on any given day. For any reason. You wish it wasn't true, but I know for a fact it is true. I have the notes to back it up.
Nothing you claim is known fact. Everything you have said is all a guess. I can't believe others are willing to risk their livelihood on your assumptions. Remember what they say about assuming. Only good thing here is that your assumptions have ZERO effect on me and my pay. Contrary to your belief, I really do live and work in a different state. A non "right to work for less state". I am not Steve, that's not even my middle name either.
Democracy is not a four letter word. Neither is stupid. That is what you are to even think that the union is running things at your place of employment. A divided work force is one easily pushed around by the company.
Sounds to me like slim is one person that feels he knows everything. From reading his rants I think he feels he should be a salary type as well. What a laugh!!!!!
Become a united workforce and the Union will do LOTS better at the negotiating table. Slim is preaching hate and discontent. That is all. Go back to Burger King, Slim. I bet they need a "fry boy' there. Give it a shot.
As always,
Jeff (still not Steve)
GO IAM!!!!
To Lodge 933; your questions were answered why not answer one easy question for our group.
Why won't you come clean about losing our RONA (profit sharing) in 1997?
I see that Ass. Bus. Rep. Steve and Treas. Wolfy are active on this blog yet they ignore this simple question. Why?
Well here are more details it involves Bobby Martinez and his buddy Larry Dixon. Dixon was the union’s business representative at that time. Dixon lost our RONA using it as a bargaining tool while peeking under self induced drug euphoria during active contract negotiations. Martinez knew of Dixon’s problem and did not intervene. Dixon lost his job at the union and also lost his job at Hughes. Hughes aircraft was willing to spare his job however he would not submit to a rehab clinic. You may ask about the circumstances about this total blunder by directing this question to your local steward. This raises several other questions. Why doesn’t this union police itself or its actions? Doesn’t appear to be very united after all does it? Also why doesn’t the union try to get back our profit sharing? They blame the company however they should look at a mirror for the true answer. This blunder in giving away our profit sharing is the first step in the demise of this union. There are plenty more blunders since. Their blunders do not go away with hiding them, instead their problems are compounding. No Rona, Wage stagnation for several years, No fair equitable wage distribution or job representation, No optional 9/80 workweek, Failed 2006 strike based on politics, Doubling your union dues, and etc. In the midst of all their blunders they still do not police their actions nor will they let lower union members police their actions. This is evident by the “Scab List” and Agent Smith’s letter of coercion; also there are plenty union members that know what a “median value” is. It’s not about your union it about their union. Who are they? IAM LODGE 933. They are your representatives to the company. Set in one of “their meetings” and ask questions. Stay away from their koolaid though. I think a change is long overdue. Go away iam.
They blame the company however they should look at a mirror for the true answer. This blunder in giving away our profit sharing is the first step in the demise of this union.
Oh, it happened earlier than that, but that tale right there is a good one.
There are plenty more blunders since. Their blunders do not go away with hiding them, instead their problems are compounding.....In the midst of all their blunders they still do not police their actions nor will they let lower union members police their actions.
It's a fine example on anarchy. You're right, it's been going on way too long; people have just realized that what we've said is true; they're looking out for themselves and their cronies, not for the membership as a whole. That was completely lost in 2003.
It’s not about your union it about their union.....Set in one of “their meetings” and ask questions. Stay away from their koolaid though.
I'd like to, I don't get invited, as I'm one of the 'vocal' ones. But, I'll bet they'd take my check and this membership application in a heartbeat! Smile and shake your hand while stabbing you in the back and calling you 'brother'. Some brother!
Go away 933!
"You must be one of the "not much school" because that is horribly written. Aug 13, 2009 8:47:00 AM" (work time?)
It looks like bad writing is a skill enjoyed by many, see below.
"However you to debate,o.k answer the following question, should be an easy yes or no answer, we'll comment on the context later. Aug 9 2:36pm"
"I'll give you mine for$20.00 and while your at go ahead amuse me with the RONA story. Aug 10 8:21pm"
"Cause it will be the company who benefits whenit breaks off inside you NOT the local. Aug 11 5:36pm"
Oust933!
"It looks like bad writing is a skill enjoyed by many, see below."
Yes but I only wanted to single you out since you thought you were so dang smart. BOHCHRA!!!
"do you call it nepotizm when you get you kid a top $ job,"
This is my favorite. Use spell check or better yet just ask Willie because he is here to save us all. BOHCHRA!!!
1.Is the company helping you or advising you?
2.Were you present during any of the negotiations from when Raytheon took over in 1999 until now?
3.Can you give a garauntee that Raytheon is going to step up like you say they are?
4.Have you ever negotiated pay and benefits for anyone other than yourself?
5.You show links and stats, Have you actually researched those facts to see if they are indeed true?
Thank you for responding. The first 4 questions really do show that if you weren't there you can't really know what went on at the table. I myself only get what I am told by our negotiators.
-----------------------------------
OK! I call Bu77 Sh!t!!
Bait, trap, and chicken out are your trademarks, Mr. Wolf. "The first four questions..." is a crock of pooh. Question 1 was a trap. Don't lump that horse manure in with any legitimate sounding questions. It has no relation to the other questions. And that shows we really do know what goes on at your tables. You admit that you don't know what goes on, you only get what the negotiators tell you. Federal Court has decided it's OK for union negotiators to lie to their members. That means to you too. I remember the lying during the strike.
Mr. Wolf, you have no business in a leadership position of the union. You were called out long ago on another web page over this same subject. Find it here. Your lack of mental fortitude is obvious. You ditched us after you couldn't answer the questions. Surely you found something to challenge by now, no? It's the second time you've challenged us in public and chickened out. Your clients are watching. You better distract them with a hardley davidson looking union T shirt.
Remember Willie was a supervisor at Walmart so don't he has your best interests at heart.
Walmart Willie
WOW there is some stuff here that is very close to the rhetoric being spewed by Willie and the poor boys.
Anti Union Walmart
Well Agent Smith or Wolf, Superbia wants to debate with you and all you choose to retort with is baby cartoons, 5 questions of nonsense, a stereotype video (I think wolf you should really watch) and some anti walmart videos. His debate is sound however you choose to divert the issues. Can you at least come up with some constructive counterpoints to Superbia's issues? It appears your new career path with the union will be a failure as well if this is all you can do in debating the issues. You wanted a debate as he indicated. He thought you were the union's "master debater". Maybe the term has another meaning? You really need to come back to reality, none of us work at Walmart unless you think Raytheon is Walmart. "Sale on TOW missile aisle 12". ROFLMAO!
two-for-one sale on toilet paper, as it seems to be needed here badly!
Stop teasing for two weeks!
http://www.iam933.net/new.html
Coming Soon!
A 20+ year union member's plea to Bobby Martinez concerning dues increase and membership numbers.
This I gotta see!
"When we were on strike you claimed in the azstarnet to have more than 600." Hmmm...I never read that. You mind showing me the quote & page? You sound angry, no, even pouting! It must suck to know Union Members have signed up."
Sorry been doing more important things like enjoying my life. Here it is I do appologize it was not over 600 it was almost 600, still more than enough even for you pukes!
http://regulus2.azstarnet.com/comments/index.php?id=164626
"133. Comment by Mitch H. (Sponge Bob Scabby Pants) — January 15,2007 @ 3:40PM
Ratings: -0 +0
Re: 69. Comment by Rick H. (Hoomi) —
Re #62:
The petition has been circulating for several weeks already, David. I have not heard what the current signature count is, but based on the attitudes I'm reading here and hearing around the plant, it's gaining momentum
It was almost 600 signatures when I signed it. :)"
Curious?! Why did Gary Leatherman start the oust or iam933.net site when it was the Union (Bobby Martinez) that saved his job when you blessed company had fired him? Or didn't he tell you that story? Ask around there are alot of people who know it well.
To Smiths Psychologist
The Walmart videos which you so casually dismiss clearly shows where Willie gets his anti union sentiment. After all he was a supervisor at a Walmart and as you can tell by the video Walmart is very anti union and Willie does use some of the same language as seen in the video. He does not have your best interest in mind as he has been brainwashed by big corporation.
You union guys resort to character assasination and don't speak to the issues. Stop dodging the issues! Where is Mr Wolf's reply to the 5 questions?
600 petitions in 07? LOL...I guess if you counted most of the crossers. That's funny. There was a petition, but not 600 signers.
"600 petitions in 07? LOL...I guess if you counted most of the crossers. That's funny. There was a petition, but not 600 signers."
Aug 14, 2009 11:44:00 AM
Yeah we know you guys are nothing but liars, always have been always will be!
Re:"Stop teasing for two weeks!
http://www.iam933.net/new.html
Coming Soon!
A 20+ year union member's plea to Bobby Martinez concerning dues increase and membership numbers.
This I gotta see!"
This weekend it will be posted to the received area. I promise!
"Or didn't he tell you that story? Ask around there are alot of people who know it well."
Tell it, then!
Billy Preston sang a song about that:
Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin' if you want to be with me
Put up or shut up!
Someone said...
"Why did Gary Leatherman start the oust or iam933.net site when it was the Union (Bobby Martinez) that saved his job when you blessed company had fired him? Or didn't he tell you that story? Ask around there are alot of people who know it well."
Any truth to this???? I am VERY interested!!!!
Only those afraid of the truth seek to silence debate, intimidate those with whom they disagree, or slander their ideological counterparts. Those who know they
are right have no reason to stifle debate because they realize that all opposing arguments will ultimately be overcome by fact.
The union in action.
They posted the union member's letter to the iam933.net website. See it here if you are interested.
That letter is to Bobby Martinez. How many of us know what his 2008 "wages" were? Your dues paid Bobby $149,088.00 last year. This is on the public record. With your dues increase etched in stone, can you guess how much his pay will increase this year? And what about the 2010 dues increase?
That big paycheck caught my interest. I looked it up, and it's true. Did you know 245 salaries paid in IAM above Local Lodge level in 2008 totaled $34,127,822.00? And that is only for workers whose salary is above $75,000!
GO IAM? Go AWAY!
"That letter is to Bobby Martinez. How many of us know what his 2008 "wages" were? Your dues paid Bobby $149,088.00 last year."
Wow! I didn't realize he made that much that's 3 times my yearly pay!
Hmmmmm! look .....
"In 2008, William H. Swanson raked in $20,567,134 in total compensation.* In the previous year the CEO of this company made $18,259,223. Total CEO compensation has increased by 13%."
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/ceou/database.cfm?tkr=RTN&pg=1
WoW! That's 411 times my yearly pay.
Hmmmmmmmmmm! Just exactly how much do you make Willie?
The difference is that Bill Swanson actually PAID your wages. The Union goons got their pay FROM the wage earners. Something is wrong with this formula.
I wonder what the entire IAM budget is. 34 million dollars was paid out in salaries to 245 people. Not to mention the DBRs at each lodge. All this from people who have to work for a living.
Jeff's post Aug 13 12:38pm
The mandatory OT scenario I laid out in a previous post is a direct quote from the companies chief negotiator. They wanted to be able to tell a worker he/she had to work OT, up to 4 hours, on any given day. For any reason.
Really?
Around here, 99.9% of the population would jump all over that. This union's not doing the co. any favors.
They darn sure don't make life difficult, either.
"The difference is that Bill Swanson actually PAID your wages. The Union goons got their pay FROM the wage earners. Something is wrong with this formula."
Damn you're stupid. Raytheon pays me not Bill Swanson and guess what? The DBRs work to so yes they deserve a paycheck and just like tithe at church part of my pay goes to them. I don't cry because my pastor has a better car than me or dresses better he has a job to do and that is how he gets compensated.
"The difference is that Bill Swanson actually PAID your wages. The Union goons got their pay FROM the wage earners. Something is wrong with this formula".
Big Bad Man : (
Let's see the government get's it's taxes from us "wage earners" and without even asking. At least we willing give our money ( those who aren't freeloaders)instead of having it taken without choice.
Hmmmmm sounds like YOU think somethings wrong with that formula. You are not a very good citizen. I wonder what the IRS would say to you?
Keep the union or Raytheon will install death panels
sincerely Sarah Palin
Ahhhh censorship you have to love it.
""Why did Gary Leatherman start the oust or iam933.net site when it was the Union (Bobby Martinez) that saved his job when you blessed company had fired him?"
Well Gary are you going to answer? I know only the union has to answer any questions.
I'm waiting for the union's or Tom's version of the story. Just to see how far fetched the lies are. He seems to know the details. LOL!
We are all really living in the Land of Misfit Toys especially those wandering the streets recently attempting to deliver the sermon.
The word "sermon" can also be used pejoratively in secular terms to describe a lengthy or tedious speech delivered with great passion, by any person, to an uninterested audience.
Go away 933!
If I am not mistaking there are aroung 1700 hourly employees, not sure of the exact number. "If" 50% of them went along and decertified the union, and "If" things did not turn out as rosy as you say slick,that would mean you will have around 850 (possibly all 1700)really pissed off people blaming YOU! They wouldn't necessarily blame the other 50% who were dumb enough to follow your lead, they, would just be considered ignorant. YOU however would definetly be considered responsible,because of the things people warned you the company would do.
Are YOU really prepared and willing to deal with that?
Believe me this is NOT a threat but it could be a reality.
So if there is even a slight chance that everyone else is right and the company screws us they will be setting YOU up to be the scapegoat.
I don't consider that as having a lot of balls as much as I would consider that just plain stupid,and I would not want that many people blaming me.
"I'm waiting for the union's or Tom's version of the story. Just to see how far fetched the lies are. He seems to know the details. LOL!"
So it is true then? A simple yes or no...oh wait only the union has to answer any questions. I'm going to guess that you will say you were not in any danger of getting fired and Bobby did nothing to help. This makes it easier for you to turn your back on the group that saved you.
Quoted:
""Why did Gary Leatherman start the oust or iam933.net site when it was the Union (Bobby Martinez) that saved his job when you blessed company had fired him?"
Well, are you going to answer this question? Or are you going to turn it around and ask a question like you have done so many times in the past. You say the Union won't answer your questions, but you have not answered many questions as well, Slim. Come on Slim, what are you afraid of? The truth?
The truth is, Slim can not answer any of the questions I have asked because he doesn't know the answer. He is going off assumptions and guesses. Shoot, they aren't even educated guesses!
Are the majority of the workers there ready to side with him on his assumptions and guesses?????
It's a risk to your wages, benefits and more. I know, Slim will come back and tell me I am just using scare tactics and such. That is not the case. I am using my past experience as a Steward and Negotiator and explaining the things that companies have tried in the past.
I guess the big question is this, are you willing to risk what you presently have on Slim's assumptions and guesses?
Once again and as always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff,
You are indeed skilled at the art of bait and switch. I asked questions first. Like for two years! Then Wolfie comes along and asks questions promising to answer back after we answer his. Some of us complied. I responded well. Ball is in his court. I want Lobo's responses. He's pussing out on us. Just like last few times. You are just supporting his diversion. Good try, but you failed. We have a documented history of you doing that on this blog. You are quite artful indeed. A formidable negotiator. But still drinking Kool Aid.
BTW, I have the full story on Gary. I will release it when I am satisfied that Wolf has responded like a man. You will read it then. It dirty, salacious, and juicy. Just the kind of information that makes a unionista's mouth water. How's that for Quid Pro Quo?!
Quoted from 1/18/07:
"The real world is not fair, so the expectations of entitlements is unrealistic. I’ve worked in the real world before coming to Raytheon. Most jobs I held didn’t have any “benefits”, and the wages were barely livable."
This is another one of Slim's contradictions. He says he doesn't expect entitlements, yet he says more recently that he thinks he should be making more. Double speak???? I think so!
And he still won't answer the question of the Union saving his ass. True????? Did the Union get you your job back???? I am sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to see Slim slither around this question.....
Remember, Slim is working off assumptions and guesses. He also thinks it's ok that the CEO there makes some ungodly amount of money, yet the Union reps can't make a living wage according to him. I have no doubt that the Union rep does a whole hell of alot more than the CEO does. (The Union rep may have even saved Slim's job for him....)
Have to go ride the foothills on my IAM built Harley.
As always (and still waiting for Slim to answer questions),
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!
To Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!
I found out about Garys run in with the company by chance. I have only been here since 2000. I have been told that in the late 90's,no specific date was given, Mr. leeatherman was being handed a termination for violating the attendance policy and being a union member at that time Bobby fought for him and convinced the company to give him one more chance.
I have since asked the Chief steward ,DBR, and even called Bobby and all of them (true to our union principles)Told me that the details were confidential and they could not discuss it with me. I have found 3 or four hourly individuals in metrology who knew about it but they too only know that it happened and not all the intricate little details. Willie on the other hand who has been working for the company going on around 10 yrs now. Probably does know a lot about it because, he and Gary spend so much time together constantly plotting against well being of everyone at this plantsite. In fact they have worked up many a good spin together,like the agent smith "encrypted email". I think I might take Willie up on his offer and give up my kool-aid if he'll give me some of that crack he's smokin!
This thing with Gary is really none of our business. If Gary chooses to discuss it then fine. Kudos to the union for keeping his affairs private that is the mark of integrity. BUT Gary shows a lack of integrity by turning his back on the group that helped him keep his job. he is not the first person to do this though. Heck there were some people(non union-scabs) recently fired for being at Falcon field past their lunch time. Although they were warned not to be there longer than their lunch time they continued on until they got fired. Of course they ran to the union and guess what the union represented them. So talk all the crap you want about the union but when you need them they are there for you. Think about that when you want to get rid of the union.
"I have been told that in the late 90's, no specific date was given, Mr. leeatherman was being handed a termination"... False. Just simply false. The union may vilify him at their peril.
"being a union member at that time Bobby fought for him"...False. He was not a member at the time. Bobby didn't fight for him.
"Probably does know a lot about it because, he and Gary spend so much time together" ...False. These two have spent less than three hours in the same room during the past two years.
"In fact they have worked up many a good spin together,like the agent smith "encrypted email"...False. "In Fact?" Wild guess on your part. This letter was sent by a "hacker" from the union. The FBI was notified, so has HR. Disbelieve that if you're stupid.
"...think I might take Willie up on his offer and give up my kool-aid" ...Can you handle the Kool-aid withdrawals?
Is it true the union treasurer has gone bankrupt? Not once, but twice? Would any intelligent unionist ask this question? Would the man in question dare answer that here? I doubt it.
I think that has a whole lot more to do with the issue of "Do we trust the union" than if one angry old guy ever had an attendance infraction.
The story of the scab being fired and union saving him regarding Falcon Field is false. Union didn't save him. See the comment made at Mar 12, 2009 8:26:00 PM on the blog to see the whole story. The union president couldn't save himself!
You guys are not interested in an honest debate, only diverting the talk away from the questions of this union. The union holds you down.
Did anyone ever hear the story of the old man selling crabs on the side of the road...?
The issue isn't the details of Slim almost getting fired. The issue is if this is true, did the Union save his job? Because, I have a feeling that they probably did, yet he will do anything to try to twist that fact.
So what if someone has filed bankruptcy. What business is that of anyones??????? Just like it's not your business what the guy working next to you, or someone in a different classification makes. Mind your own damn business. Oh, that's right. Slim is only in this for himself!
Not one "anti" here is able to answer any questions I have raised because they are scared to admit that they are going on assumption and guesses. They have NO idea what the company will attempt if the Union is ousted. I think they wish they were salary, but doubt they could hold that position.
A united work force is a strong bargaining tool. The company will take notice and things will be different when it comes time to negotiate......
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!
"The story of the scab being fired and union saving him regarding Falcon Field is false. Union didn't save him."
This proves to me that you only see what you want to see. Never did I say the union saved him only represented him.
"A united work force is a strong bargaining tool. The company will take notice and things will be different when it comes time to negotiate......"
Absolutely true Jeff and if Willie and the poor boys could understand this we could all be doing better.
"So what if someone has filed bankruptcy. What business is that of anyones??????? "
YES! It's everyone's business if that person runs for office! He's a public official!
Damn you're good at twisting things Jeff.
"Mind your own damn business. Oh, that's right. Slim is only in this for himself!"
That's an Auto-contradiction! LOL! Oh, and why don't YOU mind your own darned business, Jeff?! Where do you get off attacking Gary? You know him not. All these rumors have you slobbering like a rabid dog! You want to know the story on him? Cough up Wolfie’s replies. I have the story, you don't.
"Not one "anti" here is able to answer any questions .." Nice try, you haven't answered MINE! You didn't even give defense of the union president when he got a 5 day "sabbatical"? Why so much attention focused upon a private worker, when public officials are misbehaving? You never answered that, huh Jeff?
"A united work force is a strong bargaining tool." That will never exist here. This union is too broken. Until the union makes overtures to repair the damage they did by not keeping representation equal across the classes here, they will always have a fierce opposition. That is...if they survive at all.
They can begin by admitting they did wrong today, and that they will correct the situation "for sure" before we even think of backing off. There are hundreds of signatures in our hands. It's just a matter of time. We don't take "we'll try" for an answer. The union has the power to mold the paychecks in negotiations, as long as they stay within the budget that the Company will accept, and it lets the Company hire the talent it needs in each field. That brings me to a different point. The one brought up on the original post.
What is the union going to do about the Company putting salaried workers in Tester positions this fall? It's going to happen. Is the union going to strike over this? Is the union going to reshape wages so the technical fields can be hired? Or is the Company going to force the union's hand by letting engineers do touch labor and tell the union to shove it if they wont let the Company pay fair labor rates? The union is in a conundrum. I plan to work through the strike along with 1500 union and non-union workers when this happens.
REPEAT! Read the news! The Company is going to replace touch labor this fall! Engineers are going to do Testers work! The union can't do a thing! The crossing union members will finally come out of their sleep when they see first hand how much the union lied. And if the union doesn't strike, the workers will see it as the union putting their tails between their legs and running off like a scared pup. There is no way out. This union is finished.
So Jeff, you can keep talking about Gary and Willie. Those guys are but a small part of this movement. We've infiltrated the union and are getting advance notice on some things. And we laugh. We see the thrashings of a retarded union scared of the ghosts who they can't see. They don't answer to anyone. Some of us joined recently.
It's a small investment to get into the monster. You're infected. You're owned. You're doomed.
"The union has the power to mold the paychecks in negotiations, as long as they stay within the budget that the Company will accept"
So the company sits silently and the union dictates terms? That's interesting. Where do you come up with this logic?
As far as public officials go that is stretching it a bit since Raytheon is a private business ding dong.
"Read the news! The Company is going to replace touch labor this fall! Engineers are going to do Testers work!"
Take a breath Glenn Beck because the only way you can say something like this is either you are lying or HR is feeding you info. Which is it?
Quoted:
"I plan to work through the strike along with 1500 union and non-union workers when this happens."
This is EXACTLY the problem I have been telling you all about for about a year now. Why would the company care to negotiate a fair and decent contract when they can force a strike and have all these people cross the picket lines????? Especially with you "anti's" telling them so here on this blog!
A strong and united workforce is a STRONG negotiating tool. If the company knows how united the Union members are there is no way they would chance a strike for fear that they would not be able to get their product out the door.
With a divided workforce the Union probably won't be able to put up enough of a fight to keep those jobs with the bargaining unit. And that is your fault! Not the Unions!!!!!!!!
During negotiations companies do not go "here is a bag of money do with it what you wish." That is ignorance speaking. That is someone on the outside wishing they were at the negotiating table.
Truth is, every dollar the Union gets from the company is a fight. Whether it's wages, benefits or even simple contract language. About the only time the company willingly gives money is when they are trying to "buy" the contract ratification vote. Companies throw money at classifications and signing bonuses. Personally, I would rather a general wage increase as it is better for the bargaining unit as a whole.
In the end, it's each one of the "anti's that will have to answer to everyone when the company screws you all should you oust the IAM. Think how you will go home and tell your loved ones that your job is being outsourced, that you are going to have to pay more for medical/Dental, that you now will have to work mandatory OT should the company deem it necessary so you won't be able to pick up "junior" after school.
These are all things I have seem companies try at the bargaining table. Believe me, it happens. I doubt you will believe me though, not sure you "anti's are working with a full deck. I think all you see are Union dues going away and how the company will welcome you with open arms and give each and every one of you a fat raise. Get a grip people!!!! Do not confuse willingness with ability!!!!!!!
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"To Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!
I found out about Garys run in with the company by chance. I have only been here since 2000. I have been told that in the late 90's,no specific date was given, Mr. leeatherman was being handed a termination for violating the attendance policy and being a union member at that time Bobby fought for him and convinced the company to give him one more chance.
I have since asked the Chief steward ,DBR, and even called Bobby and all of them (true to our union principles)Told me that the details were confidential and they could not discuss it with me. I have found 3 or four hourly individuals in metrology who knew about it but they too only know that it happened and not all the intricate little details. Willie on the other hand who has been working for the company going on around 10 yrs now. Probably does know a lot about it because, he and Gary spend so much time together constantly plotting against well being of everyone at this plantsite. In fact they have worked up many a good spin together,like the agent smith "encrypted email". I think I might take Willie up on his offer and give up my kool-aid if he'll give me some of that crack he's smokin!
Ok I decided to check the blog out. You union guys are very entertaining. I wanted to see how this subject would blown up out of proportion because you guys like the union have a hard time with the actual truth. First of all always I post under iam933.net because I am the website owner. I volunteer my time and money to iam933.net as webmaster for this website because I believe this to be a noble and just cause. I do not run the blogs so you will have to figure those people out for yourselves. I also decided not to de-link this blog due to you’re your problems with the truth. If you want the details in 1997 you ask me in person. Right now I will say my only break in service for 26 years was for 1 week during your successful strike. You think I and Willie are the only ring leaders. The movement is much larger than you think and also includes current union members. We have no leaders just a lot of people fed up with your antics. Until then…"
Jeff,
I suggest you get your union dudes to start talking to us in good faith. The BS that the union has posted here is typical of why we don't want them. I could care less of how you twist the meaning of my words. Time is low.
We are a force within labor to be recognized. This union had no pressure in the past. Those days are over. They screwed us workers and they screwed the Company while they screwed their members. Everyone knows it. They better be willing to piss off their core membership to insure their survival, because we aim for the jugular. Your scare tactics don't faze us. We're immune to the inoculation of socialist fear. Jobs wont get out sourced, nor reductions in pay. We are a federally protected defense plant with serious consequences for the company that screws with the law. The union doesn't let the work force know this. Without the union, the company must still pay prevailing wages. Period. Law. You know it is true, so stop BSing. If jobs get moved to the salaried ranks, it's the union’s fault, because those same jobs will pay higher salaried pay! The jobs will still be there, they'll just be salaried. So no workers will be out of work. They'll get raises! This proves the union is only looking after its bottom dollar from the poor workers. This is another reason we want rid of them. To the dunce that thinks only HR knows the engineers will be doing touch labor, you are living in a cave. So if you are worried how we’ll make the union look weaker, then you better listen to what we’ve been saying and come clean. We are not afraid of being union free. You are. It will cost you lots of money. Maybe like Bobby Martinez, up to 150,000 dollars a year! All your fear mongering is lies. You have your hand in the wallet of 850 workers. They are paying your way, right up to the $34,000,000 dollars the fat cats take home across the national. This local lodge made $32,000 a month in dues in 2008. By January 2010 that income will rise to $50 thousand a month. What on earth makes IAM933 worth Fifty Thousand Dollars a month? What on earth keeps the membership paying? It must be good Kool Aid.
Hey Kool-Aid!
"You think I and Willie are the only ring leaders. The movement is much larger than you think and also includes current union members. We have no leaders just a lot of people fed up with your antics. Until then…"
Gary the fact that you are willing to acknnowledge yourself for a change is noble, however there are many of us, more than you think perhaps as well. We are not leaders either but we are tired of you antics as well, and we aim to stop it!
"We are a force within labor to be recognized." " They better be willing to piss off their core membership to insure their survival, because we aim for the jugular."
You talk too much. Action is what is required not incessant roars from a monkey brigrade. Your demise is immenant, your fate has been sealed, you just haven't seen it coming yet. The only force to be reconned with is the the force of hard your fall will be.
Action is what is required not incessant roars from a monkey brigrade.
Interesting how that exact same description could also be used successfully to represent what IAM933 has done for the last few years. I think a better term would be cluster-####.
For years, many of us just stood by and took the abuse this union doled out, on a hope and promise of something better. What we got each time was an appalling mess. This is intriguing how a handful of individuals has 800-odd people in an uproar. The only thing this group has in common is 'free ourselves of the union'.
Your demise is immenant, your fate has been sealed, you just haven't seen it coming yet.
What? Oh, no, you're sadly mistaken; we DO see what's on the horizon, a new beginning, a new era, a new spirit of cooperation that your organization could never deal with. In fact, it avoids it; it's not the 'union way!' Face it, we've shown you the results multiple times, and it's all here for people to see - union free is the way to be!
The only force to be reconned with is the the force of hard your fall will be.
The only hard fall there will be is the exodus of the hard-core union dolts when the decertification vote is held, and the NLRB certifies it. Face it, your time as an employed trade unionist is coming to an end in just a few months. If you claim we don't have the fortitude, just look how long we've been here waiting for this opportunity.
Go away 933!!!!!
Why would the company care to negotiate a fair and decent contract when they can force a strike and have all these people cross the picket lines?????
You're right, Jeff, you're not from around here. You would not be writing those words if you were here in 2003. The union membership capitulated in that effort, simple as that. The leadership then cried out 'we will strike in three years'; damn if it didn't happen. Gave the company three years to prepare for it. There's stupidity right there.
Especially with you "anti's" telling them so here on this blog!
Please, give the company some credit; you think HR has a daily 'blog report' about what's posted here? Yeah, they probably do. Do we influence any decisions that are made? Now, time will tell, now, won't it?
A strong and united workforce is a STRONG negotiating tool. If the company knows how united the Union members are there is no way they would chance a strike for fear that they would not be able to get their product out the door.
Well, now, that's been a refuted argument as of 2006, hasn't it? You think the engineering staff couldn't just roll in and do that again, even without an organized 'contingency workforce' at the ready?
With a divided workforce the Union probably won't be able to put up enough of a fight to keep those jobs with the bargaining unit. And that is your fault! Not the Unions!!!!!!
Nope, can't take the credit for failure to represent. That's solely on the union. The only thing that's happened here is the dissenting voices are now clearly understood; there is a better way, and you don't know what it is until you've tried it.
I enjoy reading that these "kool aid drinkers" say there are a couple of people here doing all this conspiracy. While recruiting, how many doors were slammed in your face Jimbo & crew? How many workers turned you down? You better call Bobby and tell him what kinda mess he gave you!
Anonymous said...
"We are a federally protected defense plant with serious consequences for the company that screws with the law. The union doesn't let the work force know this. Without the union, the company must still pay prevailing wages. Period. Law." "What on earth keeps the membership paying? It must be good Kool Aid.
Aug 16, 2009 10:13:00 PM"
The answer is.."In March 1990 Raytheon pleaded guilty to trafficking in classified Pentagon budget documents and paid civil and criminal fines of $1 million. In 1994 Raytheon paid $4 million to settle charges that it overbilled the Pentagon.In 1997 Raytheon and its former Amana unit agreed to pay $10 million to settle a class-action lawsuit.In 1998 Raytheon paid $2.7 million settle allegations that it improperly charged the Defense Department for expenses incurred in marketing products to foreign governments.In 1999 Raytheon paid $400,000 to settle claims that it overcharged the Defense Department.In 2000 Raytheon agreed to pay the federal government just over $1 million to resolve quality-control issues.
In 2002 Raytheon was one of three companies that settled charges brought by the Securities and Exchange Commission,In 2003 Raytheon agreed to pay $3.9 million to settle charges,More than three years later, the company finally settled the matter by agreeing to pay a penalty of $12 million.Also in 2003, Raytheon agreed to pay a $25 million civil penalty to resolve State Department charges that the company violated export controls by selling military communications equipment to Pakistan."
http://www.crocodyl.org/wiki/raytheon
Seems Raytheon would rather pay the fine than to obey the LAW.
"IAM members at Raytheon’s civil aircraft operation in Wichita, Kansas responded angrily to a 2003 report that the company planned to outsource wire harness work. Despite launching a pressure campaign, the union could not stop the transfer of work. Two years later, IAM District 70 members rejected what the company called its final contract offer, which went into effect when two-thirds of the membership failed to approve a strike vote."
Of course that won't happen here we have your word on it.
http://www.crocodyl.org/wiki/raytheon
"In his book The Great American Jobs Scam, Greg LeRoy describes how in the mid-1990s Raytheon threatened to move its extensive operations out of Massachusetts unless the state provided substantial tax breaks. The state caved in, and Raytheon ended up saving about $21 million a year."
http://www.crocodyl.org/wiki/raytheon
But, then again I don't trust you either!
That same website claims Raytheon is responsible for the TCE contamination under south Tucson. I don't trust that website.
Raytheon has had legal issues in the past, and as the article states, W Swanson was spanked for it. Maybe that's why we have such intense ethics training these days.
The last paragraph is telling. They threatened Mass. with a move-out. Fortunately RMS is on USAF Property. They can't just "up and move" the USAF Plant 44 now can they?
But I give you props for doing your homework,
Thank you for a good argument. Now if only others in the union would display a bit of brains.
SP
"That same website claims Raytheon is responsible for the TCE contamination under south Tucson. I don't trust that website."
Damn man can't you read! It said Raytheon is associated with it not that they created it. As far as that goes Hughes created it! Raytheon just ignores it.
"The last paragraph is telling. They threatened Mass. with a move-out. Fortunately RMS is on USAF Property. They can't just "up and move" the USAF Plant 44 now can they?"
Oh yes they can! The TIA wants FACO and Tucson is in the process of annexing Raytheon. We're lean, remember Raytheon will not want to pay extra taxes, they have already given alot of FACO's business to Camden, they'd love to give it all away. Less land + less work = more money in Swanson's pockets.
Oh yes they can! The TIA wants FACO and Tucson is in the process of annexing Raytheon. We're lean, remember Raytheon will not want to pay extra taxes, they have already given alot of FACO's business to Camden, they'd love to give it all away. Less land + less work = more money in Swanson's pockets.
What?! No, being in the City was part of a deal that was made ten years ago...read paragraphs 5 & 6 of this article:
http://169.197.5.26/daily/breakingnews/111236.php
"Oh yes they can! The TIA wants FACO and Tucson is in the process of annexing Raytheon. We're lean, remember Raytheon will not want to pay extra taxes, they have already given alot of FACO's business to Camden, they'd love to give it all away. Less land + less work = more money in Swanson's pockets."
You forget one critical detail in your arguement. The workforce. If this union continues to be a beligerent force, then it sweetens the deal for Raytheon to leave. The silly strike makes RMS expand Camden. It's called risk management.
Jimbo should go to the company and suggest breaking apart the classes again. Testers are not EETs. Inspectors are not Assemblers. Ect. A union that works WITH the company might avoid corporate abandonment of the workforce.
Please to explain:
How has the Union screwed you? If none of you have spent even one day in negotiations how can you say it's the Union screwing you? I think you want it to be the Union. But you can not say that for sure. Can you?!?!?! I mean honestly now. For once Slim, tell me the truth! Don't go on some rant that is off topic, explain this one to me. Don't think you can....
As always....
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!
How has the Union screwed you? If none of you have spent even one day in negotiations how can you say it's the Union screwing you?
We see the results of those negotiations every three years - THAT'S HOW WE KNOW THE UNION HAS SCREWED US!
I think you want it to be the Union. But you can not say that for sure. Can you?!?!?! I mean honestly now. For once Slim, tell me the truth! Don't go on some rant that is off topic, explain this one to me. Don't think you can....
Sure I can - and I did:
"With a divided workforce the Union probably won't be able to put up enough of a fight to keep those jobs with the bargaining unit. And that is your fault! Not the Unions!!!!!!"
Nope, can't take the credit for failure to represent. That's solely on the union. The only thing that's happened here is the dissenting voices are now clearly understood; there is a better way, and you don't know what it is until you've tried it.
When three electronic technician classifications were grouped into one, or four assembly occupations were grouped into one, why was that done? [Say nothing, Jeff, you're not here, remember?]
Why are there no promotions into the support occupations? Was the union scared that actual genuine technical work would come from good non-union minds?
Say nothing at all about the union screwing the membership; it's happened for years, Jeff.
Oh, yeah, that's right, you're not here, man!
Nope, can't take the credit for failure to represent
When Raytheon says "Die you Pigs, This is all you get" it isn't the negotiators who failed. That's why we chose to strike.
"Jobs might go away because the union squeezed the Company so hard they have to look elsewhere for a dependable and loyal workforce."
Now we know for sure how STOOPID you really are!!! The union did not represent, the union did not get us what we wanted, the screwed us how?! By sqeezing a company that gave you squat?! How can it be both ways? You can't "squeeze" something you did not get you moron!
"The union did not represent, the union did not get us what we wanted, the screwed us how?! By sqeezing a company that gave you squat?! How can it be both ways? You can't "squeeze" something you did not get you moron!"
Looks like we torqued off Tom! Woohoo!
The Company offered much, but you went in there with no intent on accepting their offer. But you took worse in the end. You should have taken the first offer! But that's all been said b4. We blame YOU for sloping the wages in the wrong directions over the past few contracts. FIX IT!
IAM 933 Negotiating Team Member
Okay, you savant, your own people are writing words like these:
Can ya cut a brother a break?
I'm beggin' ya, man, can ya?
You can't "squeeze" something you did not get you moron!
This proves the point then, it's the negotiator's skills that are lacking, thus convincing proof of the earlier statement:
"We see the results of those negotiations every three years - THAT'S HOW WE KNOW THE UNION HAS SCREWED US!"
No real sense in arguing this point any longer. I'm pretty sure that your (lack of) skills in discussions gets the bargaining unit the 'wonderful' contracts we get.
C'mon, go on strike again. I double-dog dare ya!
You unigoons should have taken the high road when the oustees asked for an honest debate. Union Officer Debate, Jan 2008 was just the beginning. Then, By posting fake websites about Wilie, and making false claims, you opened yourself up. It seems you weaklings can dish it out, but can't take it. The oustees are touching a nerve. Good for you oustees!. I am still waiting for the 5 answers from earlier this month too. Sound of 369 Ajo Way
I never read if it was true the treasurer went bancrupt or not. Is that rumor true?
"Then, By posting fake websites about Wilie, and making false claims, you opened yourself up."
Think those were fake do ya? You'll find out soon enough, so will leatherman visconti,rollinson coyne and,kieler.
I have made it clear to both Ramon Rodriguez and Thomas Hacker that I am not going to deal with your harassment. If these representatives of the union would like me to disclose what they told me when I talked to them in the past, then by all means, continue the harassment. Otherwise, grow up, act like the adults you are supposed to be and knock the bullshit off.
It is clear that both these guys have something to hide or they would have responded by now. They just are a bunch of crooks using the system anyway
Iam a Union member (IAM NOT a labor grade 11 button pusher) Dumbo. I'm scared for this bargaining unit come Nov. I have had 4 or 5 people tell me the union contacted them (Phone, in person or by mail) and they were all upset by it. They told the union reps to "GO AWAY!!" I don't know anyone who is in the union today that wasn't in Jan. of 2007. We don't have a "union" now. Too many people were hurt by the returning workforce. Jim, Steve, and ED need to debate you guys and FIX THIS! IAM933 needs serious damage control. Forget signing up new members just stop the bleeding already!
For nearly three years, we've been here awaiting a debate.
Only Jeff (from elsewhere, apparently), has had the guts to honestly debate the points that need to be debated.
"Too many people were hurt by the returning workforce. Jim, Steve, and ED need to debate you guys and FIX THIS!"
Please see the newest thread on this blog, and see what your union leaders claim to be 'debate'.
Don't be afraid of these people; you still have the ability to take control over your work life.
"IAM933 needs serious damage control. Forget signing up new members just stop the bleeding already!"
But that's it; that's their playbook; we've already explained that all they can think about is the $$$ that they'll be losing.
There will be minimal damage control, as they'll now claim that we'll be sabotaging the negotiations here in a few weeks.
It comes to this!
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