There is a Rebellion among the workers at Raytheon! It’s a fight Labor VS Labor. It’s a fight for what's right within the confines of Air Force Plant #44. Our union is scamming the workforce for profits. This union systematically fleeces the technical trades at RMS to spread your wages around the lesser skills that have majority voting membership. The only reason they do this is to raise their own income. Machinists, Testers, Calibration Techs, and WIPS, etc. all had better wages relative to lower skilled workers at Hughes back in 1994. Take a look at your contract booklets and see for yourself. The wages have shifted over twenty percent in favor of the assemblers in 15 years. I don't care what lame excuse the union has for this problem, the fact is they fleeced us.
The jerks who say we know nothing about negotiations better know this; The company pays for labor at an average pay per worker, and negotiates based upon the entire cost of labor as a group averaged. It's the union that has the heavy hand in setting wages of the individual work classifications. They must fight to keep within the threshold set by the company for the pay of the entire group. But they have the biggest role in setting the wages of individual classifications, as long as the average pay is within Company limits, and the Company isn't totally screwed because the union offsets the pay so much that they can't hire targeted workers.
So you union big shots better know this. We're on to you. We plan to tear down your house because you have ripped us off. We're tired of the lies and the false promises. You call us greedy when YOU, in fact, are the greedy company stealing money from the working class. We know we can get better pay without you, because you've depressed our pay so much, it’s become obvious. And for two decades you have made false promises, with the secret intent of raising the low skill jobs pay so much that it doesn't even pay to get the promotion to Tester! Machinists have been held down because you can get so much more money from Assemblers union dues. You've ruined the natural promotion incentive within the Company. Who wants a promotion when you can make as much money doing lesser work? And those lesser skills are paying the union coffers. What a scam!
Jimbo forgot that He is charged with representing ALL classifications, even if only one worker from that class is in your union. If you fail to do that (and you have), then you loose your charter. And The Decertify Committee is just the group to take your charter away. Signatures are pouring in now. Union members are signing up too. They know you guys are broken, and they want to abandon the sinking ship while there is time. Some of them aren't sure that we are right, but they know the union is wrong. Everyone knows IAM933 doesn't have the courage to speak up and answer the charges on this forum. You have no balls. Jimbo admitted it. For almost three years we've asked for a dialog. The only decent response we get is from Jeff. Jeff isn't from here, but at least he has attempted to represent. The rest are the occasional lunatics with slogans. Jeff should be happy he doesn’t suffer this local lodge, because he would be on our side if he worked here.
60 comments:
Gentlemen,
As a courtesy to you.We wanted you to know, that we know who you and your supporters are, as evident by the megre sample of data provided below.
We also know that you do not have enough support to decertify IAM933. As evident by your increasing acts of desperation.
In fact we know many details about you that have remained silent until now. Such as Mr.Bob's meeting with you to guide you in the path you now lead.
We would like you to know that there are some who do not hold it against you. Although we do not speak for them, we believe Your negotiating committee will still look out for your best interests when bargaining with the Raytheon.
We also would like you to know that your efforts are only in vain because you are not seeking the correct solution to the problem. We will be contacting you soon with more details on that.
P.S. Willie, I am a little disturbed... I personally think you are far too talented and should be using your skills on more creative endeavors. You my friend would make a most excellent Android!
P.P.S. Oh by the way I did not post you identities..........for now.
Woohoo! A secret agent comes on line to add his input. Of course you know who our outspoken supporters are. It's no secret. But that is a red herring to the discussion. We're here to talk about the issues, of which you have yet done squat! Desperation ? Do you call our acts of illustrating how incompetent your union is acts of desperation? I guess we've been desperate for almost three years. Nothing has changed. Your union still runs a scam over the workers. Read the OP Agent Smith.
BTW, your intimidation technique of trying to suspend us with the trivial posibility that you know who we might be isn't disurbing. But it does support our aguement that you are evil.
If you think we are failing so miserably, then you wouldn't have posted that message. But it's done and recorded. And if we fail in our endeaver this time, what makes you so sure this can't be tackled over a successive period? You are very shallow if you think that.
But for now, we'll let you worry how many of the union members have secretly signed the petition. And how close to the magic number we are to ousting your lame union from our Company.
What I am reading from your posts and comments is that you are really only interested in getting something for yourself because you feel you are Gods gift to the working world. You say let everyone negotiate for themselves, but what you mean is screw the rest of you, I want mine!
You feel that those classifications below you are just that, below you. And in being below you, they do not deserve what they are making now.
You are so out of touch with reality it is almost comical. I come back here to see what you will say next. At one point you say the union gets something for everyone, then you say that they only get something for a few classifications. Make up your mind!
Maybe you should not spend so much time on this blog and invest more time into your diet and going to the gym. Maybe you can get down a chin or three by Christmas.
Remember this, if you remember nothing else I have said, the company is not your friend. They are not here to do what is best/right for you. They are here to make money at any and all costs. And they WILL screw non-unionized workers over every time to make that elusive buck.
What do you have against the other people that work there? Are they not entitled to pay increases? Or just not as much as you? Should there be one pay scale for everyone else and a special one for you? call it the special 4 chin rate????????????
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And for the record, there is NO chance in hell I would be on your side. I am IAM through and through.
In case you haven't been able to figure that out on your own.
Talk bad about me all you want, just don't insult me by claiming I'd be on your side if I worked there. If I were there, you would know just how much I support the IAM. I really do hope you fail in your endeavor.
Once again.....
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!!
Ahh Jeff,
As always you are entertaining. Again.... We want to negotiate for ourselves because the union has failed us, even screwed us. If you were so damned concerned about everyone getting equal raises, then you would support our position, because over the past fifteen years it hasn't been that way. What say you to that? What we mean to say is "Screw the union, we want what’s ours". They have systematically reduced our wages when compared to our "brothers" in other classifications. We would stay loyal to IAM if they worked in all of our interest. In this case, they don't. If you support them, then you are a socialist with no brain.
It seems you have devoted a bit of time to my physical appearance, as if to say that because I appear portly, I am somehow an inferior thinker and worker. You my friend are wrong, just as you are on the other subjects we've written about. I have nothing against my fellow workers. I have everything against the organization called IAM933.
My fellow workers can go to school and get those raises just like me at their own leisure. You have no ground to defend when you think that highly skilled labor deserves less than competitive wages. That's against every union policy to support that ideal. You sir are bordering on Communism if you don't accept this truth. Even unions don't support Communism.... right? So get off your but and tell your sister local union to put the wages back in order!
You have been wishing for our demise for some time. As we have been wishing for the demise of our local lodge. Our local never came out and asked what it would take to make things right. What would it take for us to lay off and allow them to "defend" us and "protect" us from the evil bad company? Over a course of years, they chose to screw everyone but themselves. Now they are screwed. We plan to invite a different union in here when we finish with IAM933. And we will not let the new union play politics with wages. Unions are there to defend the workers, right? This is where IAM933 failed. If they had not failed, we wouldn't be here now, would we?
"We plan to invite a different union in here when we finish with IAM933."
This is new rhetoric from the anti union folks. I thought it was no union at all. Everyone can negotiate for themselves. The problem is most of you testers think you should be engineers and should be paid the same as one. Good luck with that.
"We plan to invite a different union in here when we finish with IAM933."
Doesn't sound like you have too much confidence in your abilities to negotiate for yourself if you are already thinking of getting another Union in there. What then? Oh wait, I know. Once again you will whine and complain about how your wages are not high enough and other "lowly" workers make too much.
The way I see it, as long as you live in a "right to work for less" state and your work force is divided the company will get away with whatever they desire. The only way to get the things you all want is to be united and stand together as IAM members.
Sounds like there are others there that think you are a whiner too.....
You are getting competitive wages because of the Union. Not in spite of them. In my opinion, there should be no classification increases unless there is a substantial increase in job duties or skills needed to perform the job.
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!
To Anon.
Just a little clarification in case you did not read the title paragraph on the main IAM933.NET website. Our goal is to rid ourselves of the incompetent Lodge 933 representation hence our symbol the slashed out 933. We know any representation other than lodge 933 is best for all Raytheon hourly careers. Some in our group prefer no union representation while some prefer a different more professional managed union. We want to bring it to a democratic vote. This is the American way. It is a known fact that the wages are slanted by those who have the power to do so. By power I mean the union leadership and not the company. Lodge 933 does not represent each skill or job equally. Wage increase is weighted to the maximum amount of money the lodge can retrieve from its membership dues; more members in a majority skill set along with increase in wage equals more net dues percentage received. Now they were also able to smooth talk you into a membership dues increase without any viable justification. Talk about double dipping. You can take all past and current contracts to any accountant or lawyer and they will tell you the same thing. The union is sucking more money from you than ever before without anything in return unless you fall for their paranoid rant of job protection. Just bring it to a vote and let the majority decide.
"We know any representation other than lodge 933 is best for all Raytheon hourly careers."
See this is something new as far as I can tell. Oust 933 has been all about ousting 933. I don't recall anyone calling for a different union but i could be wrong because it's hard to read all the stuff you testers gak up.
Agent Smith, how about you launching a petition to keep the local 933 around and see how many signatures support the union? Also, there was no data provided support claim that the decertification effort is in desperation. We aren't the ones going to nonmembers homes and soliciting membership. So it seems that the only acts of desperation is being played out by the local 933. We know who you are(Tom) and the caliber of person you are.
To Jeff, The picture of the fat slob you see posted is a fake.That person does not exist at Raytheon. However the true owner of the title "Superbia Parti" is an overweight hourly Rita Rd employee who spends most of his time sitting in front of a keyboard. Although we do not know exactly how he spends his time at work, or why he is so hateful towards the union, he is a very talented individual when it comes to cyberspace,webpage design etc.., Which is exactly why we think all of the hourly employees should get better pay and benefits. These are the most talented people on earth. It is a shame they squander their time in petty arguments instead of making a difference in their workplace.
To Anonymous... Our sincerest appologies. It was not our intention to frighten you with "intimidating evil techniques". We were merely pointing out to the certain key individuals who started the Oust movement that,
1. Your own so called "supporters" were giving up your identities indicating they must not be very happy.We emailed those seperately to those elite individuals and did not see any reason to include them in the blog.
2.We know how hard it's been for you because they have also indicated to us how far off your numbers are.
3.We have seen just recently that not only did you stop your count down, but you also started e-mailing as many union members as you could find names for. That to us shows the desperation you must be feeling.
We did find one thing extremely intriguing however, and that is this: Every anti-union site and link you guys have posted, has no mention of your movement in any of their links,search bars,tags, or referrences that we could find.Believe us when we say we exhausted every search term we could generate that had any mention of your group, your names, and any other affiliation to you. IAM933 was mentioned as was Raytheon but you my friends ....do not seem to exist.
It was as if those people were trying to stay as far away from your group as possible. How can that be if your cause is so just?
BTW we did not say you were failing "miserabley" we only stated you were going about this whole thing wrong.
Read this next section very carefully and s l o w l y to ensure you can actually grasp the meaning. These are YOUR words NOT ours.
"We know any representation other than lodge 933 is best for all Raytheon hourly careers."
If you TRULY were sincere enough to want to change the way IAM933 ran things you would have joined back with them and ran for the "member elected" positions on the negotiating committee and would right now be in the drivers seat!
However, being the freeloaders you are, you probably never realized how easy that could be.
Agent Smith said: ..he is a very talented individual when it comes to cyberspace, webpage design etc..,Which is exactly why we think all of the hourly employees should get better pay and benefits. These are the most talented people on earth. It is a shame they squander their time in petty arguments instead of making a difference in their workplace.
You call this a petty arguement? The negotiating committee knows by now that this is no laughing matter. This petty arguement can cost Jimbo his $92,000 a year job and put him back on the line making 21 dollars like the rest of us. Don't under estimate the power of the people. We are a very talented bunch of rebels indeed. But our union has seen fit to give us the shaft. See below.
Jeff said: In my opinion, there should be no classification increases unless there is a substantial increase in job duties or skills needed to perform the job.
Thank you Jeff! That is exactly what we are talking about! The union did precisely what you are against. The union raised the wages of a certain group of workers while pissing on the rest of us. Thank you for supporting our arguement!
I would like to thank Agent Smith for joining the fray. It's about damned time someone from IAM933 got on here and began a debate. Stick to the issues. Keep it PG. We don't want to hear petty threats about who you think we might be. That is irrelevent. I dont care how many of us you think we are. What are you doing to fix the injustices of years without pay increases, combined with the tilting of increases toward one skill set and away from all of the others?
If you read our blog over the past two & 1/2 years, you'll see a ton of bones we have to pick with this union. Get your best brains together and come back to the web table here and lets talk. We've only been asking for that since early 2007! Jimbo recently said he wouldn't do that. That's simply lame. Does your side have anyone with the savy to even meet our challenge? Bring your members. Encourage them to read, instead of discouraging an honest debate over this union. How un-American is that? The ball is in your court Agent Smith.
For the rest of you out there. One of the supposed "certain key individuals " as Agent Smith says, had his or her vehicle damaged on plant property within the past 15 hours. Plant Security has been informed. I wonder if this goes along with Mr Smith's sincerest appologies? Intimidation techniques will only embolden us further. You are on record of posting your messages. They will be transmitted to the authorities. If there is nothing to it, then there is nothing to worry about, right?
These are the most talented people on earth. It is a shame they squander their time in petty arguments instead of making a difference in their workplace.
Perhaps this 'petty argument' may in fact be 'making a difference' in their workplace. Tell me that's not a viable argument.
So, now the crap hits the fan; for nearly three years these web pages and blogs have been here, documenting the facts, for all to see. There's nothing written to dispute the facts - as we see them - for all to read and digest.
If you TRULY were sincere enough to want to change the way IAM933 ran things you would have joined back with them and ran for the "member elected" positions on the negotiating committee and would right now be in the drivers seat.
I think that's falling into this argument right here: Seventh Lie! Great bunch of articles; thanks for sharing with those who really needed to read them.
There may be those out there who think they're God's gift to an occupation; there are those who feel they're God's gift to labor themselves! If you're in the second group, you just don't care about being in the first group. That's a proven fact, friend; deal with facts, not speculation.
My petition is signed and sent in; others will continue to do so until it happens. This union local is old, tired, and crumbling like the shack on Ajo Way.
You don't think other unions would salivate at the prospects of organizing at that plantsite a little over a year from now? Woo-hoo! Maybe a labor union would do better than an industrial union would in supporting the 'most talented people on earth', because I'm not seeing it with IAM933.
How great minds think alike at such an early hour of the day.
Maybe Agent Smith should go back to cooking the books for lodge 933.
Remember Agent Smith all cash transactions cannot be traced.
"The union is sucking more money from you than ever before without anything in return unless you fall for their paranoid rant of job protection."?? -We are not having money taken away since we all claim it on our taxes and get it back anayway. Union dues are tax deductible, Morons. Think of it as a savings that can save your job and benefits.
I could talk all politically correct like you ousters, but let me just tell it like it is. All you selfish, weak, little sissy's who are SO intimidated by union members -need to grow a pair of balls. I can't believe you grown men are really afraid to just join the union, go to the meetings,speak up, and try to make changes the proper way. Instead, you sissy's hide and coordinate in secret=WIMPS. You are the same weaklings who will not look us in the face when walking down the halls. Why not just get your degrees' and go salary so you could be rewarded for kissing a$$!!
"The union is sucking more money from you than ever before without anything in return unless you fall for their paranoid rant of job protection."
From a pro-union peasant, that's got it just about right! Glad to see even you are able to recognize it.
Union dues are tax deductible, Morons.
'However, if membership of a professional organization is required by work, you may deduct that.' Remember, it's NOT required to be a member of the union, it's voluntary in the State of Arizona. YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN!
All you selfish, weak, little sissy's who are SO intimidated by union members -need to grow a pair of balls. I can't believe you grown men are really afraid to just join the union, go to the meetings,speak up, and try to make changes the proper way.
Once again, Agent Smith, (who has mis-posted under the Anon tag), you need to not take things so personal. See, as the truth is raised, the level of discussion goes away, and the same crap circles around again. Now friends, this is how negotiations goes. It's no wonder we're losing as a group with each and every contract. "the proper way" will NOT equal the union way.
You are the same weaklings who will not look us in the face when walking down the halls. Why not just get your degrees' and go salary so you could be rewarded for kissing a$$!!
See I had no problem identifying vile union trash, especially while wearing the clown regalia of the local lodge. The pins, the buttons, the lanyards, yeah, you were easy spot. Howz about this; we'll get rid of the union to force you to kiss up - or retire. Your choice; choose wisely!
This group has managed to irritate some of the hard-core members. This is neat to see now, isn't it? Wait 'till you see what you get in return, nothin'!
I just found out about this sissy website and I have to say that you wimps disgust me more and more as I read your crap. Since you sissys have SO much anti933 support. Why not just join our union that already exists, VOTE FOR EACH OTHER, and make the changes you all want? Is it because you only want to make changes that will only benefit those who kiss a$$ like yourselves? I am an honest,intelligent hardworker, and if you sissy's came up with some good ideas that would actually benefit all hourly, I myself would vote with you, and others would too. Instead, YOU SCABS just take full advantage of the great benefits this Unions has helped obtain and set up with the company, without any involvement or financial input. This is why you are considered SCABS & leaches. You are leaching off all the things us members unite for, but without uniting with us. You know all that money that you old time legacy leaches have in you 401's? Well that came from past Union negotiations being successful!! But after you leaches got your YOURS, you all decided you are now too good to support the Union which helped get you those benefit$. By getting out and being ANTI-UNION you screwed the good people who were hired later on because you all made the member-numbers go down, which makes negotiations less profitable for the hourly workforce. This really pisses me off because even without completing my degree yet, I still work circles around Engineers, planners, buyers, supervisors, & managers. I am the "go to" problem solver and I have not had a raise in 7 years. This is not the unions fault though. It's the company's fault for being tight with the billions of dollars in profits, which they do not want to share with hourly. This is what all us Union members stood up for during the last Strike. I'll admit we did not gain much, but we might have if you SCABS hadn't puckered up so much while pretending you could do it all. Working overtime while us Union members were sacrificing and standing up for all of us. You were considered a quality contingency workforce, yet I have been fixing all your mistakes for the last three years, DAMN YOU!
If you notice around the plant site some areas are trying to ramp up their numbers. I imagine this is pre negotiation strategy in the event of a strike. Seems the company doesn't think that killer "contingency" group will be able to keep up with the demand. Have to get the work out now while the quality union members are still in house.
Okay, so I think I've got this sorted out. Please correct me if I'm wrong:
Based on the first "Agent Smith" comment, the union is keeping a "naughty-and-nice" list. This is one of the things that creeps me out about unions in general, most notably the ones back east. I'm not happy to hear that 933 is taking part in this thuggery. I suspected the letter I received in the mail from the union was part recruitment, part intimidation. I guess I was right.
Based on a couple of other pro-union comments posted here, it seems that the union is as anti-tester verbally as they have been in recent contract negotiations. As a tester who has been trying to keep an open mind about the union, and hoping that it will fight to undo the wrongs we've been dealt in the past few contracts, I now see no hope for my future with this union.
Congratulations, "Agent Smith" and others! You've made up my mind for me. Where do I sign this petition?
If that is all it took to sway you then you were not leaning the unions way anyway. Nice deflect though. Oh and by the way there are some great union testers so maybe you should seek one out and talk to them.
"Based on a couple of other pro-union comments posted here, it seems that the union is as anti-tester verbally as they have been in recent contract negotiations."
This is the comment of someone who probably had an issue that did not get resolved to their full satisfaction and uses it as an excuse to blame the union and quit.
I dunno. I think they were sayin that the "oust members" had given them a list names because they weren't happy. Sounds to me like the decertify committee has been pissin in someones coffee! looks like smith is letting the rest of know what's really goin on. I'm atester too and i think there may be somethin ther. If the oust people really wanted change why didn't they join and vote out the others? they want avote for decert why not from within? and i'm not so sure they can get another union in here anyway. If they did decert Raytheon would not let another union in they would fire anyone who tryed it. There would be no one to stop them ether.That's what Walmart does.
Taken from website: http://www.ehow.com/how_2076708_deduct-union-fees.html
How to Deduct Union Fees
Contributor
By eHow Contributing Writer
Article Rating: (1 Ratings)
Union fees are considered by the IRS to be un-reimbursed job expenses. They can be taken as itemized deductions on Schedule A of Form 1040. These deductions, however, can only be taken to the extent that they exceed 2 percent of your adjusted gross income (AGI). If you have enough medical expenses, taxes, mortgage interest, charitable contributions and casualty or theft losses to itemize deductions, you should take advantage of this tax benefit.
"If that is all it took to sway you then you were not leaning the unions way anyway. Nice deflect though. Oh and by the way there are some great union testers so maybe you should seek one out and talk to them.
"Based on a couple of other pro-union comments posted here, it seems that the union is as anti-tester verbally as they have been in recent contract negotiations."
This is the comment of someone who probably had an issue that did not get resolved to their full satisfaction and uses it as an excuse to blame the union and quit."
I was never in the union, but I have approached each contract negotiation hoping they would show me a reason to continue trusting them with my contract negotiations. Call it an example of the definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results- but I've been hoping just the same. I've gotten nothing in return. I was red-circled in 2003. I finally got a paltry raise in 2007. Meanwhile, others have received consistent and substantial pay raises. I consider the money I've lost in those negotiations my "union dues," and I'm through paying them.
As far as those "great union testers" you mention, I have not seen them where I work. We've got a couple of grandfathered button pushers who are in the union; the testers who are worth anything (and worth more than what the union says they're worth) are all non-union.
Besides, I shouldn't have to seek out anybody from the union to get their opinion. If the union relied on an effective, customer-service oriented business model, they would be selling their services to me at every opportunity. Instead, they rely on their tired old "no dues, no news" policy when dealing with non-union members, missing their chance to sell their services and maybe recruit a few members in the process.
Now that I write this, I wonder why I've been giving them the benefit of the doubt this long.
Someone said:
"we'll get rid of the union to force you to kiss up - or retire. Your choice; choose wisely!"
You just want everyone to kiss ass like you? Is that what the above statements says??????????
Sounds like there are more and more people on this blog speaking up for the Union these days. Very nice.
The company keeps names of both Union and anti-union people too. That way they can figure out just how bad a strike would affect their bottom line.
A number of comments here also make it sound like the Union is the driving force behind negotiations. That is just your anti-union ignorance showing. The company gives what they want in regards to wages and increases. Don't be fooled.... Remember, do not assume!
Question:
The counter on the front page said less than 18 days a few days ago. Now it says you have until the end of August. Need more time? Or couldn't you count the days properly?????? One of your chins get in the way?????????
As always,
Jeff
GO IAM!!!!!!!!!!
"I was never in the union, but"
That's was mistake#1. Your second is your ignorance! If you have been a freeloader all this time you have Absolutely No idea how Unions work! I know this because freeloaders aren't allowed to the meetings! Your "no dues no news" is your damn fault yhou ignoramous! It's people like you who give the others in your job classification a bad name, because you speak out of your A$$. Join the local start paying for what you've been stealing all these years and get educated. If you don't want to do this than do us all a favor and quit! I sure don't want to work with you.
"I was never in the union, but I have approached each contract negotiation hoping they would show me a reason to continue trusting them with my contract negotiations."
Get involved and help create change. Anyone can sit back and and criticize.
"I've gotten nothing in return. I was red-circled in 2003. I finally got a paltry raise in 2007. Meanwhile, others have received consistent and substantial pay raises. I consider the money I've lost in those negotiations my "union dues," and I'm through paying them."
Who has received consistent and substantial raises? I've been red circled to and still have not received a raise at least you have. Again it's a poor excuse to leave the union.
"As far as those "great union testers" you mention, I have not seen them where I work. We've got a couple of grandfathered button pushers who are in the union; the testers who are worth anything (and worth more than what the union says they're worth) are all non-union."
Wow way to sway votes to your side. What makes a good tester anyway?
"Besides, I shouldn't have to seek out anybody from the union to get their opinion. If the union relied on an effective, customer-service oriented business model, they would be selling their services to me at every opportunity."
Well some here say the union has been going to the doors of non members but they consider that intimidation. Kind of makes the anti side look like they are talking out of both sides of their mouths.
"Now that I write this, I wonder why I've been giving them the benefit of the doubt this long."
You've been with the company for some years now and if you weren't in the union yet you had no plans to be a member. Either that or you are one slow thinker.
"I was never in the union, but I have approached each contract negotiation hoping they would show me a reason to continue trusting them with my contract negotiations."
Damn Freeloading Scab!
"Now that I write this, I wonder why I've been giving them the benefit of the doubt this long."
Good! Now stop your cry baby whining and go to work somewhere else!
To those who call us "damned freeloading scabs" that tell us to work elsewhere, maybe it's you who need a new place of employment. You hate it here, but we enjoy our jobs. You hate your employer, we don't. It sounds like you need to find a better job! When you go, you can leave us scabs all behind to fight for the bones that the Company throws at us. By the way, SCAB is a word made up by communist thinkers who wanted to justify the atrocities unions committed against law abiding citizens who merely wanted to go to work and feed their families back in the day. The rat on your button is a symbol of hate. If you go to church on Sunday, why do you condone hate? Make your mind up.
Anon Jul 25, 2009 2:04:00 PM said "All you selfish, weak, little sissy's who are SO intimidated by union members -need to grow a pair of balls.... You are the same weaklings who will not look us in the face when walking down the halls."
BWAHAHAHA! I've been looking unionists right in the eye for three years while they look any place but back. The turtles trained their kids to look down and away. I say HI to a steward, and he looks down. I cackle in laughter when he passes by. It's hilarious! You hide behind your "Union Pride Supporting the Troops T-shirts.... when you walked out on US Soldiers when they needed you. Never mind, we contingency workers made up for it. 104% productivity with zero lost time injuries. We set a record of performance and safety. Go look it up.
Jeff said "Sounds like there are more and more people on this blog speaking up for the Union these days. Very nice."
I agree! Finally there are some union members coming on here to balance the debate. I have made many comments in the past that Jeff can verify. I wanted more unionists to come and join the fray. I stand by that. Now, play nice and get specific about the debate. We want the whole Company to see this. Stop the petty in-fighting and argue the points. Yea yea, I'm guilty of it too.... but that's what it took to incite a good argument to resolve this for the people. Make intelligent arguments and your posts will live on this blog. All of this is for the good of the workers. Let the people see the blogs!
Those unionists who deny our right to information because we don’t pay forget that the law here demands equal representation. The comment earlier about the unions broken method dealing with "freeloaders" pushes potential customers away from their group is spot-on. The union has a legal obligation that it has failed to uphold. The right of the union to operate on RMS property is hinged upon their conformance to the law. Their refusal to hear what concerns us is reason for us to rise up against them. They brought this mess upon themselves. Union Members are signing the petition. Machinists are signing. How far down does this union need to go to see that they are broken? It is precisely the people you unionists despise that hold the solution to the big problem. Your hate for us is the fire that will burn your house down.
Jeff, the countdown was originally posted to show the time left before we could legally turn in the petition on the 90th day before hand. Would you like us to repost it? Or would a clock counting to the last day we can legally turn in the petitions be better? It doesn't really matter. I can ask the Webmaster to change it, or you can. Or we can leave it as it is. No sweat lost. For those interested in finding the petition for download, here is the address: http://www.iam933.net/pet.html. You can download the pdf file and open with acroread or click on the "sign the petition" picture and get it in HTML. Printing is as easy as click on the printer button from either of these two choices.
The bottom line is this. IAM933 has done a horrible job representing. It's own membership knows this. So before the people is a petition to remove the union's right to represent, based upon poor performance of their duties. Other anonymous writers have said before that the decertify team has diverging opinions about what is the best track to take. Remove all unions? Or exchange this one for another?
To the pessimists out there who don't think we can bring one in after this one is gone; you are naive. With Congressional representation looking down over a defense plant, the Company knows to respect the rights of the hourly workforce to have or remove a union. They will adapt operations to whatever the workers decide. For 57 years this plant has operated with a union. They’re not scared to exchange this lame one for a more effective one. And the EFCA is looming over us with near certain congressional passing this year. President Obama will certainly sign it. So where is your argument?
And for you fearful ones scared that a union free workshop would be the end of life as we know it at Raytheon, you too are misguided. Have the intestinal fortitude to have a secret private conversation with an engineer or other salaried worker or two, and ask if they want a union. Ask them if they would choose to return to the hourly ranks for the protection the union provides. Ask the Uniformed Security Personnel if they regret removing the IAM933 five years ago. Do they want back in? The ones I've talked to say no. But do your own search. Just ask the questions in private where the person is free to speak their mind. Take off your union buttons for that quiet talk. Let them be honest with you. A wise person seeks the truth. And when we all have an honest open discussion about these issues with no threats or violence, we can all vote if we want to keep the union. I am prepared to accept the results of the first democratic election in 57 years concerning this subject. I like democracy, do you?
The union has always represented ALL hourly employees. To say otherwise is just plain dumb. Like you said its the law.
Now why should the union give info to those who don't want to pay for it? So you can call HR and let them know whats going on?
Now if you want to bring in another union what union are you talking about? And don't you think that those involved in one union would get involved with another? If you are willing to bring in another union are you Superbia going to get involved with it? and if you would why not just get involved in 933 and work for that change you feel you desperately need?
Now you make a lot of assumption yourself about what the company will or will not do. Fact is no one can predict what exactly would happen if the union was decertified. My guess is that assemblers would probably top out at 10-$12, testers maybe $14 and the support groups probably anywhere from 8-$12 unless the company decided to OUTSOURCE jobs in which case they would save plenty on insurance. Think hard about losing the only protection you have.
"Have the intestinal fortitude to have a secret private conversation with an engineer or other salaried worker or two, and ask if they want a union"
Why would someone have to have a "secret or private conversation with an engineer? and does it really take intestinal fortitude to have a conversation with someone? You are pretty dramatic Superbia.
I feel most salary employees are fine with their jobs but you know they wish our union was stronger because if we had better pay and benefits they would to.
Anon Jul 25, 2009 8:43:00 PM wrote
Who has received consistent and substantial raises?
Virtually every salaried employee has received some form of raise that I know of since I've been red circled. Substantial? Three or four percent. Why didn't my union get these types of raises in the last contract? They said "economy sucks; can't do it", yet the salaried got raises; why?
I've been red circled to and still have not received a raise at least you have. Again it's a poor excuse to leave the union.
Giving yourself a raise (small? yeah, but it's something!) by quitting the union seems to be the smart move.
To those that argue which union would be chosen to represent the bargaining unit after the decertification vote is made; does it really matter? Sometimes the best things have to be done by yourself.
Anon Jul 26, 2009 1:22:00 AM wrote
Now why should the union give info to those who don't want to pay for it? So you can call HR and let them know whats going on?
Ever heard of a 'stooge'? The Negotiating Committee as well as the Executive Board is full of them, running off to discuss all matters with HR rep's all the time. It's no big secret that there are some in HR who might be in some ways sympathetic to the cause. You make their job way too easy, since your own people can't keep their mouths shut. What kind of unionist are you, anyway?
Yes, there is infighting within the ranks of IAM933; there's no united front at all. Why would you think there would be one within the Oust group? The only thing we're working toward is getting rid of 933. Once that goal is achieved, we'll go to the next one.
"Why didn't my union get these types of raises in the last contract? They said "economy sucks; can't do it", yet the salaried got raises; why?"
You ask why? Because you anti union folks would not stand up to the company with the rest of us and say "hey we deserve a piece of the profit to". We help make the company profitable to.
"Giving yourself a raise (small? yeah, but it's something!) by quitting the union seems to be the smart move."
By quitting the union you take away bargaining power thus the contracts are not as good. You have no one to blame but yourself.
"The only thing we're working toward is getting rid of 933. Once that goal is achieved, we'll go to the next one."
So you really have no plan at all then as far as I can tell.
"Because you anti union folks would not stand up to the company with the rest of us and say "hey we deserve a piece of the profit to". We help make the company profitable to."
That support was there in 2003; it was squandered away by a union leadership that had their tails between their legs. Nothing had been done in the twenty odd years prior to prepare the membership for that inevitable day. Your responsibility to the membership wasn't to say "take it; it's better than nothing!", because that's what happened.
Oh, yeah, "we'll shown 'em in 2006 who runs this place..." as you walked out the door in 2003; I was there. You gave the company three YEARS of warning about a strike. THAT was why it was a failure, not because a percentage of people crossed, or never joined, or got out before the whole mess got started. Being inept was what led to your 'loss'.
You were shown the outside of the gates for eleven weeks in 2006 for what gain? The education of the membership? "This is what a real union does to get their way!"
Too bad a real company (Raytheon, not Hughes) spanked you and sent you to time-out for nearly three months for virtually NOTHING.
Raytheon dealt with unionists for years; you had no idea who you were fighting against, didja? Why won't your group talk big about a labor stoppage now? You don't really care about that; all you care about is keeping the union alive. If you cried 'strike' once more, you KNOW that'll be the death sentence to this local.
All Oust is trying to to is facilitate that end; simple as that.
"Too bad a real company (Raytheon, not Hughes) spanked you and sent you to time-out for nearly three months for virtually NOTHING."
Too many cowards such as yourself would not stand up and fight for a better contract. Whether it was 2003 or 2006 you would have been in the arms of the company suckling on their teats. Get ready for massive outsourcing of jobs to if your union gets voted out.
Too many cowards such as yourself would not stand up and fight for a better contract.
These are OUR union people, not mine, who were cowards in '03 and were in the arms of the company suckling on their teats. Yeah, I was there in '03, I was there in '06; were YOU there? Right, YOU were one of the ringleaders of the circus. What happened?
Get ready for massive outsourcing of jobs to if your union gets voted out.
I can't wait; let's start now!
"...no one can predict what exactly would happen if the union was decertified. My guess is that assemblers would probably top out at 10-$12, testers maybe $14 and the support groups probably anywhere from 8-$12 unless the company decided to OUTSOURCE jobs in which case they would save plenty on insurance. Think hard about losing the only protection you have."
"Get ready for massive outsourcing of jobs to if your union gets voted out."
I totally disagree. We can predict what will happen simply because there are 12,363 employees at Raytheon, not 1751. The vast majority receive great benefits and better pay without representation. Not all of them have college degrees. And last, they all get Profit Sharing, even the Security Folks who decertified IAM933 five years ago.
Ask a Security Forces worker if they want IAM933 again! Outsourcing didn't happen with the Security Forces. Neither will it happen in Labor. Your charge is proven false. Your pay will not go down, because they must attract talent with a clean background to do the toils that they require. That costs a premium. Hundreds could retire right now if they tried it. And the Federal Government has set rules as to how much the Company must pay as a minimum. Law prevents this silly freefall of wages as you claim. Reality is not on your side because your claims are uneducated guesses. Good try though.
"Why would someone have to have a "secret or private conversation with an engineer? and does it really take intestinal fortitude to have a conversation with someone? You are pretty dramatic Superbia."
With all the insults that came with this claim, I'll patiently try to explain the truth to you, Grasshopper. Company Rules, and Federal Law prohibit salaried workers from involving themselves in labor issues. This is done to prevent "unfair labor practices" in a dispute. Some unionists claim that there was a secret meeting with Bob to plan a decertification. That is a joke. Those guys making six figure salaries would not risk their well being to talk to a rebel group about ousting the union. That task is left to ourselves to figure out. The company could care less what we do, they just want to be left out of it.
But I digress. It takes intestinal fortitude to open your minds enough to ask the questions that might not be answered the way you want to hear. I said to ask in secret so you could respect the salaried workers right to not compromise himself or the Company. There are 10,000 sets of eyes that see things, and we are naive to not pay attention. Somewhere within those thousands of highly educated workers there has to be a sense of reason, wouldn't you figure? As for the "Drama"? OK, maybe I'm using a bit of melodramatic language. Don't tell me our union doesn't do it. It works both ways. So bite me.
Thanks to the new voices present on this blog. I’ve been poking you guys for ages to get some response. Bring your friends. Tell all the workers. Unionists and non-union alike, let the people speak. Let the people vote. Let Democracy Rule!
"When you go, you can leave us scabs all behind to fight for the bones that the Company throws at us."
How can you even make such an asinie statement like this? If there is no union everyone will be an "at will wemployee" meaning whatever Raytheon gives is all you get. If you don't like it leave. Most likely all you will get is abone and yes you will fight for it.The crap I've heard and seen posted about "it's illeagal for the company to lower your pay or take away what you already have" is not true. Ask any Electronic City employee who went from $10.00+ /hr. to minimum wage for 6 months before their company folded in bankruptcy! Bones you want well bones you will get. Unless..... Did some of you oust guys make some kind of deal with Bob or the company so that you will get more than bones? How many of you will get salaried positions if you pull this off? What else did they offer you? Could it be that you "elite ones" agent smith mention negotiated for yourselves only so to trap everyone else into giving up any chances they might have? Big bonus check for Bob nice salary positions for you all paid for by the savings the company would make if they slash all those "non-union" hourly pay and benefits.Hmmmmm Convenient.
"If you go to church on Sunday, why do you condone hate? Make your mind up."
Oh I don't know seems like you are pretty hateful yourself. In all your previous blogs I never saw any mention of getting in a different union, At least not until smith sumised that there might be something more to your conspiracy with the company. Now you want to play nice and stick to issues, huh! Seems like somebody got caught with their fly open! By the way, you guys are talented, picking out just the pieces of conversation you want the discussion to head for as to avoid the truth that there maybe something more decitful and evil in the works here than you want let out.
"I agree! Finally there are some union members coming on here to balance the debate."
Balance the debate... what debate? Your soapbox is not a debate. You want change then why have you not gotten all those who signed you petition and queried them and taken these items to either the negotiating committee or to your beloved company and shown them your demands!I don't see why not you freely show them here. You do not want any union period! Where's the hate now.
"All of this is for the good of the workers. Let the people see the blogs!"
This from the people who hates union?!!! Wait a minute are you actually stating that you Mr Superbia want to "ORGANIZE" to get something better for ALL the people? Why then you have clearly been looking out for yourself(ishness) all this time? Oh wait silly me I forgot you've already made your deal with the company. moving on
"Those unionists who deny our right to information because we don’t pay forget that the law here demands equal representation.""The bottom line is this. IAM933 has done a horrible job representing. It's own membership knows this."
What you seem to forget to mention to everyone is there are 5 people on the negotiating committee. These individuals tell the company what we want.The company says screw you this is all you are gonna get, They come back to us and ask what do you want to do we say: strike, take it, or whatever. The choice is ours.Meaning ALL the hourly members. Not all of wanted the 2003 contract I voted to strike. I wonder how many of the ousters (if they were members)gave in forcing that contract to be voted in. Meaning it very well could have been the fault of you people not us. Moving foward, the so called "Union leadership" does not have final say! Everything is voted on if you were a member or knew anything about unions you wouldn't be speaking out of your A$$$.
As to representing non members let me tell you that when I was a steward and represented a non member I was told to my face by Mr.Rinehart (your precious company man) " I don't give a s**t about you or your contract"! Mighty kind and mighty convenient for them there were no witnesses. That is what your company thinks of us (maybe not you) they go out of their way to make the union look bad to it's members and even worse to the non members, You didn't think we would win a grievance when the HR rep himself could care less did you? I do not like to lose and when people like you help stack the deck against us and have the gall to say "you are worthless" I can't believe anything from those lying lips. In fact from this day forward when I see your name posted "Superbia Parti"
I will train my mind to see Humpty Dumpty!
"Ask a Security Forces worker if they want IAM933 again! Outsourcing didn't happen with the Security Forces"
Correct me if I am wrong but I think the security dudes were with some local out of pheonix because conflict of interest if we did go on strike and not members of local933. But even so they may not have been outsourced their starting wages for new hires is $9.30/hr that's $1.00/hr less yhan our custodians.... Guess being union pay$
You said: "How can you even make such an asinie statement like this? If there is no union everyone will be an "at will wemployee" meaning whatever Raytheon gives is all you get. If you don't like it leave."
What a schlub! Your Kool-Aid is definately over the legal intoxicating limit. Read Lie number Six!
http://www.iam933.net/sixthlie.html Another union lie designed to keep you at the bosom of socialist slavery.
"Ask any Electronic City employee who went from $10.00+ /hr. to minimum wage for 6 months before their company folded in bankruptcy!" Electronic City isn't a Defense Contractor on a US Military Instalation with Federal Laws supporting the work force. I stand my ground. Your wages won't go down. Next lie!
"Did some of you oust guys make some kind of deal with Bob or the company so that you will get more than bones?"
NO! I stake my whole purpose on that. It's against the law. I did not, and none of the committee members I know did that. This whole fight is over the fact that this union is SO BROKEN, we had to do something about it. Your Kool-Aid based dillusion is causing serious paranoia. Stick to the facts.
"Why then you have clearly been looking out for yourself(ishness) all this time? Oh wait silly me I forgot you've already made your deal with the company."
I will not get a salaried job unless I am self qualified to earn it. If I ever go there to begin with. I haven't even written a resume! I may be happy doing the job I love for another 30 years. I had no promises made to me, and have not asked for any favors. Let me reitterate; That is illegal. I wont go there.
"What you seem to forget to mention to everyone is there are 5 people on the negotiating committee. These individuals tell the company what we want.The company says screw you this is all you are gonna get, They come back to us ...."
Your five reps do not tell you all the facts. They can tilt the deal, and let you believe something that isn't remotely close to the truth. Never mind the bluffing and blustering moves made by both sides in that closed room. Did you know that your five negotiators are allowed by law to lie to you? When the strike vote was about to occur, the five negotiators never told the membership that there was a $1000 signing bonus in the contract. They lied and said it was a miserable $500.
They LIED to you. The offer made in negotiations was "If you suggest the membership accept this contract, we'll give $1000 to all, if not, we'll only offer $500 to them if they vote to accept. The union followed your negotiators suggestion to strike. Does this conflict with your memory? Remember the near riot in the TCC the night of 5 November 2006? Your union drummed up that frenzy for three years. It must have been good Kool-Aid. Read previous episodes of this blog to learn more.
"Correct me if I am wrong but I think the security dudes were with some local out of pheonix because conflict of interest if we did go on strike and not members of local933. But even so they may not have been outsourced their starting wages for new hires is $9.30/hr that's $1.00/hr less yhan our custodians.... Guess being union pay$"
You are foolish enough to believe starting pay is cause for a fight? If someone doesn't want to hire on at $9.30 and hour, they can go to a call center and get more. Raythoen pays the prevailing rate. And the fact is, Security Pay goes upward of $16 and hour. I know some people in security jobs elsewhere who don't get near that pay. And none of the call center jobs, or custodian jobs pay that much. Where's the union benefit?
Humpty Dumpty? LOL
"Did you know that your five negotiators are allowed by law to lie to you? When the strike vote was about to occur, the five negotiators never told the membership that there was a $1000 signing bonus in the contract. They lied and said it was a miserable $500."
Well this only goes to prove how much of a pea brain you really do have! If you and E V E R Y O N E will think back... you would remember the little piece of paper that circulated the Friday before we went out on strike. Every supervisor was trying to SELL it to us!It was the C OM P A N Y proposal that shows a $500.00 signing bonus NOT a $1000.00 that you would have us believe the union lied about! This was FROM R A Y T H E O N! (not the union).If you can't remember that well I still have a copy of it.....FAT HEAD!
"Well this only goes to prove how much of a pea brain you really do have! If you and E V E R Y O N E will think back... you would remember the little piece of paper that circulated the Friday before we went out on strike. Every supervisor was trying to SELL it to us!It was the C OM P A N Y proposal that shows a $500.00 signing bonus NOT a $1000.00"
I remember that.
"... you would remember the little piece of paper that circulated the Friday before we went out on strike. Every supervisor was trying to SELL it to us!It was the C OM P A N Y proposal that shows a $500.00 signing bonus NOT a $1000.00 that you would have us believe the union lied about!"
Of course. Union negotiators told the Company they refused the contract before that letter was ever circulated. Read it again moron.
"Of course. Union negotiators told the Company they refused the contract before that letter was ever circulated. Read it again moron."
It wasn't a letter it was the companies final offer, it was the contract. Besides if the company did offer $1000.00 why didn't show in the final offer? Why did it only appear after Jan 07?
"Read it again moron."
Wow that looks evil and vile
If you suggest the membership accept this contract, we'll give $1000 to all, if not, we'll only offer $500 to them if they vote to accept.
Bobby said "shove it Mr Guth."
And that's the way it was that first week of November 2006.
Psychological definition of a cult from Wikipedia:
Studies of the psychological aspects of cults focus on the individual person, and factors relating to the choice to become involved as well as the subsequent effects on individuals. Under one view, an important factor is coercive persuasion which suppresses the ability of people to reason, think critically, and make choices in their own best interest.
Studies of religious, political, and other cults have identified a number of key steps in this type of coercive persuasion.
1.>People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations;
2.>Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
3.>They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader;
4.>They get a new identity based on the group;
5.>They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled.
Bottom line is I think that most of the Union hardcores exhibit all these qualities.
You hardcore members ready to pay alms to Father Bobby.
By the way... If you want me to clarify my comment I will upon request. Agent Smith your therapy is long overdue.
Smith Ignored!
"Bottom line is I think that most of the Union hardcores exhibit all these qualities.
You hardcore members ready to pay alms to Father Bobby."
Don't you anti's do the same thing with your Supreme Being/Lead Android Superbia Parti? I see all you anti's towing the same anti gospel line. Anyone have kettle?
"Outsourcing didn't happen with the Security Forces. Neither will it happen in Labor. Your charge is proven false."
Remember these words Parti. if you think that the company will not outsource then you are as dumb as that picture you use looks. The company would waste no time and get rid of the custodial workers and bring in the Jani King staff. Hell they want to do it now but I'm sure you don't care as that's a job beneath you. Next will probably be the maintenance staff followed by material handlers. You lose the union and it will happen.
"The company would waste no time and get rid of the custodial workers and bring in the Jani King staff."
When Jani King staff gets secret security clearances, you might see that happen...LOL. HAHAHA...likely story. Get a grip! They couldn't do it.
"When Jani King staff gets secret security clearances, you might see that happen...LOL. HAHAHA...likely story. Get a grip! They couldn't do it."
They were at Raytheon during the strike you dink. Hell they were there at least a month after we came back. You might have seen them if you weren't sitting underneath your bosses desk.
"They were at Raytheon during the strike you dink."
There were more Custodians that crossed the line than you want to admit.
Some of those Jani King workers would have made fine RMS employees. Have another glass of Kool-Aid.
"There were more Custodians that crossed the line than you want to admit.
Some of those Jani King workers would have made fine RMS employees. Have another glass of Kool-Aid."
There were many black "King of Clean" t-shirts in the building so don't think no one noticed. But you don't get it. If the union goes the outsourcing will begin. Raytheon has already proven that. Again you are gambling with someone else livelihood.
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